I am one, Yazoo -- when the term is properly defined.

Otherwise, it's like dropping the F-bomb in church right in the middle of the serman, and people run around shrieking and covering little kids' ears.

Reservoir Frogs.

Eschew nihilism, do not attempt to immanentize the eschaton,
acknowledge the tragic nature of human existence,
understand the struggle in itself is rewarding
and often comedic and become a...

Essex, if you're still voting, then you're still in the pot.

Nah...you are in the pot if you try to transcend the situation by not participating. Only way to transcend the game is to see it for what it is, play it and enjoy it.

Bezzle's right the constitution was a dirty rotten trick by Hamilton.
What the colonies originally signed up to was the articles of confederation - a coalition among sovereign states with no Federal government.
Returning to the constitution will just rerun the nation's history, returning to the articles of confederation might actually give us back our intended form of government and prevent it being over run by the descendants of Hamilton and his ilk.

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Nah...you are in the pot if you try to transcend the situation by not participating. Only way to transcend the game is to see it for what it is, play it and enjoy it.

What you call "transcend(ance)" I call willful denial of reality.

For over 200 years, there is zero evidence of voting successfully resulting in government becoming smaller and less powerful.

Or less violent...

Laura...that coalition was going the banana republic route. Debtors were demanding state legislatures bail them out by allowing them to pay debts with whatever they had on hand--corn, pigs and depreciating paper currency. The mistake was believing a piece of paper, the constiution and its delegated powers would limit the Federal government, not that adults took control.

Essex, Shays Rebellion occurred when farmers returning from the war were sacked with hiked taxes and demands to pay the debts in gold and silver (which the debt-collectors were perfectly well aware that nobody had). Desire to pay in worthless "Continentals" had nothing to do with it. Especially infuriating was that

Until public schools usurped education, the Constitution was seldom viewed as anything other than what it obviously was: a self-serving writ of justification by pigmen to lord over the citizenry and steal their money.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises...

That **** didn't fool anybody in the 19th century. It's taken a hundred years of propaganda-absorption to instill in people's heads the idea that the Constitution is a guaranteer of rights rather than a violator of them despites the assurances of the various amendments.

This post exemplifies the kind of thinking that could get us out of our current national stupor.

As a potential slogan, I think that "Get out of the broth!" could really take off, if it were somehow to work its' way into the zeitgeist. For example ...

Friend: "#$%# Democrats! If we can just get Palin elected in 2012, it will all be good!"
You: "Get out of the broth!"

Friend: "I've already got two cellphones, an iPod, a laptop AND a PC, but that new iPad looks really neat ..."
You: "Get out of the broth!"

Friend: "I'd really like to quit my soul-numbing corporate gig, but my lifestyle won't hold up if I drop off the grid ..."
You" "Get out of the broth!"

Bezzle..in the south oligarchs rigged the system. The more corrupt they were the more they talked up liberty. Land taken from the Brits was sold in large blocks to shut out that yeoman farmer the hypocrite Jefferson so loved. Large landowners, when they couldn't pay their mortgage, simply went to the state legislatures and had the debt stayed. They fixed prices and continued the English practice of banning engrossing, forestalling and regrating.

There was no golden age before Hamilton and the constitution.Hamilton fought against exactly what this forum hates today: leeches like Shay and his followers who don't pay their debts and pigman who rig the system.

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There was no golden age before Hamilton and the constitution.

Be that as it may, there wasn't codified thievery as the national law-of-the-land.

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Hamilton fought against exactly what this forum hates today: leeches like Shay and his followers who don't pay their debts and pigman who rig the system.

Bull****. Hamilton was a pigman banker and lawyer.

Tip: Guess whose big idea the whiskey tax was.

**** Hamilton.

Bezzle,
enough of the PUSSYfooting. Tell us how it should be. Tell us what YOU would consider 'a Perfect Nation' would it look like.....

Liberty.

Read the book recommended in post #1.

Bezzle, Cheers, great thoughts here for liberty minded people!

Here is some additional thoughts on voting:

Having seen what Bernanke chief of all bankers has done "on your behalf" since this started blowing up mid-2007, you want us to think Hamilton, another banker, was somehow a proponent of the common man. What was in YOUR koolaid?

Bezzle is correct. There was no automatic coercion before the constitution of the US. It was a loose federation of equal sovereigns that came together for common defense and not much more. They had different trade agreements amongst themselves and separate state organizations. Of course, there were selfish men in the South pushing out the little farmer, there always are people who play by the "rules" and people who break them. People are people, justice is an ideal sometimes provided through community, almost never in a court of law. Of course there were selfish men in the North trying to monopolize industries, taking advantage of their workers and their competitors at every turn.

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EDIT UPDATE: There have been a number of posters recently who are anti-US Constitution and believe in an anarchistic ideology. This rule pertains to YOU:

While you are entitled to your opinion, advocation of anarchy and opposition to the US Constitution is as contrary to the goals and beliefs of FedUpUSA as fascism and statism. You are welcome to your opinion and welcome to post here, but posting your anti-Constitution and pro-anarchist views in response to every thread and every subject while denegrating others who are attempting to further the goals of a return to a Constitutional government will not be tolerated. FedUpUSA does not promote anarchy and we support the Constitution of the United States of America. Repeated abuse of this rule and tenent will result in a ban from this area. There will be no more warnings.

In addition, FedUpUSA's goal is to get people politically active and engaged in whatever way they choose to do so. This Forum is specifically for ENCOURAGEMENT of these activities whether it be contacting Congress, protesting, support of various legislative action or other means of attempting to regain an honest, law abiding government. People who perpetually post derogatory remarks, put-downs or other statements of discouragement or ridicule of other's efforts will NOT be tolerated. Transgressions of this rule will also result in bans from this area.

So much for constitutional "free speech."

LOL!

And I agree: **** Hamilton.

Antone, let's not go there. (Pika-Steph has been very gracious in not only putting up with me, but in pinning this thread.)

There is no such thing as free speech on someone else's property.

Thanks for that video link Ck!

First post expanded; please view appended section entitled "Starving the Monkeys".

Bez....those starving the monkeys vids were FANTASTIC.... thanks

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