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| Debunking Banks 'procedural Problems' Defence on F in forum [Foreclosuregate]
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Throxxofvron
Posts: 10318
Incept: 2009-02-17
Hyper-Speculative Psycho-Facsistic Parabolic Blow-Off
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http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/10/d....Quote:Saturday, October 9, 2010
Debunking Banks’ “Procedural Problems” Defense on the Foreclosure Crisis
As more and more problems with foreclosures and borrower horror stories are coming to light, it isn’t hard to notice that banks are still gamely sticking with the pitch that the failings are technical and procedural even as the breadth of their response and the official reaction says otherwise. Suspending all foreclosures in the US, as Bank of America did today, is a very significant move. And the pressure appears to be escalating, as a multi-state effort is close to going live. Per Bloomberg:
Attorneys general in about 40 states may announce by next week a joint investigation into potentially faulty foreclosures at the largest banks and mortgage firms, according to a person with direct knowledge of the matter.
State attorneys general led by Iowa’s Tom Miller are in talks that may lead to the announcement of a coordinated probe as soon as Oct. 12, said the person, who asked not to be named because an agreement wasn’t completed. The number of states may change because several are deciding whether to join, the person said. New Mexico Attorney General Gary King said yesterday in a statement that his state will join a multi-state effort.
The Financial Times gives us Bank of America’s gloss on this shoddy situation:
Banks have downplayed the problem by saying it is a mere technicality, adding that they are only foreclosing on homeowners who are months behind on their mortgage payments. BofA reiterated that position on Friday, saying: “Our ongoing assessment shows the basis for foreclosure decisions is accurate.”
Yves here. Although we have chronicled the affidavit improprieties, we’ve kept our focus on the fact that these abuses are symptoms of much bigger, and we believe pervasive, problems with the securitizations. But in trying to give the big picture, we may have played into the bank narrative of minimizing the importance of the affidavit issue. Reader ella in comments provided a reminder:
An affidavit is a legal document which can substitute for live witness testimony in court. All testimony in court is governed by the rules of evidence or by statute. All testimony requires that the witness swears to tell the truth, is competent and has personal knowledge of the facts they are testifying about. An affidavit is no different, in most if not all jurisdictions; the affiant swears to tell the truth by being placed under oath by the notary, the affiant states in the affidavit that they were sworn, are competent and that they have personal knowledge of the facts in the affidavit. The notary attests to the oath of the affiant and that the affiant is who he claims to be.
If a witness lies in court or in an affidavit then they could be charged with perjury. Perjury is lying to the court.
The affidavit issue is being portrayed in the MSM at a paperwork problem. Lying to the court is not a paperwork problem. Attorneys are prohibited from making a material misrepresentation to the court of fact or law. Further, attorneys in most jurisdictions have an affirmative duty to report known perjury by their clients to the court.
The problem with the affidavits is perjury on behalf of the affiants and possibly the notaries depending on the notaries’ knowledge that the affiants had not reviewed the files, the promissory notes, the mortgages, or the records of default.
Further, you can reasonably argue that the entities pursuing foreclosure (banks or servicers) have perpetrated a fraud on the court by submitting perjured affidavits. If the attorneys representing the entities have knowledge of the fraud or are preparing questionable documents then they may also be involved and subject to penalties.
At the heart of any trial or hearing is the determination of the truth of the matter. It is the very purpose of the rules of evidence and what law and fact is presented to the court. If the affiants lied, as it appears, then the truth of whether they owned the note and held the mortgage and the borrower was in default is at issue. Courts, Attorneys General, and bar associations need to serious consider actions that will assure compliance with the rule of law.
This country cannot stand as a democracy if there is one set of law for the banks, corps, elites and another set of law for the rest of us. Perjury and fraud on the court is very serious matter. It is not a mere paperwork problem.
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DIONYSUS: " Thou hast no knowledge of the life thou art leading; thy very existence is now a mystery to thee. " -from 'The Bacchantes' By Euripides “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” -George Orwell
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Zarathustra
Posts: 5937
Incept: 2009-04-29
Funkytown
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Throxx,
Have you read any of posts by "Mako" on Zero Hedge? Here's where he says the problem is...
"You created the money (credit) with your signature. The bank can't lend it's own credit. Matter of fact it would be illegal to do so, how about those apples.
The bank doesn't have a big pile of Federal Reserves Notes sitting there, and then when you ask for a loan they give you those FRN. They take the mortgage note put it in a checking account in your name, write a check against YOUR acccount, give you the other party the check and then claim they gave you loan, which is nonsense. It would be illegal for the bank to lend you their credit and no they don't have a big pile of legal tender sitting there.
It's an exchange really. No loan. The wonderful world of accounting.
As a loan was never funded, nor were funds ever lent, under the “Mortgage documents” how may one demand of another that which does not exist?
OH MY!
"What is Money?
If money is viewed simply as a tool used to facilitate transactions, only those media that are readily accepted in exchange for goods, services, and other assets need to be considered. Many things - from stones to baseball cards - have served this monetary function through the ages. Today, in the United States, money used in transactions is mainly of three kinds - currency (paper money and coins in the pockets and purses of the public); demand deposits (non-interest bearing checking accounts in banks); and other checkable deposits, such as negotiable order of withdrawal (NOW) accounts, at all depository institutions, including commercial and savings banks, savings and loan associations, and credit unions......" - Modern Money Mechanics
Oh, I agree, chaos will be created once everything collapses.
Humans have been fighting a war they can't possible win.
I laugh when all these people are talking about robosigner-gate, its only the tip of the iceberg.
ALL OF YOU GUYS ARE THE HELICOPTERS. YOU STOPPED FLYING IN 2007."
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"And in knowing that you know nothing, that makes you the smartest of all." - Socrates
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Throxxofvron
Posts: 10318
Incept: 2009-02-17
Hyper-Speculative Psycho-Facsistic Parabolic Blow-Off
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Quote:Have you read any of "Mako"'s posts on Zero Hedge? Yes, I have read the posts by "Mako" over on ZH. I am further mulling whether it is actually legal or not for Anyone to make claims that any Security, Bond, IOU or Currency can simply have 'the full faith and credit of the ( Federal Government of ) the United States' extended unto it without specific legal or legislative language.
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DIONYSUS: " Thou hast no knowledge of the life thou art leading; thy very existence is now a mystery to thee. " -from 'The Bacchantes' By Euripides “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” -George Orwell
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J0nx
Posts: 3067
Incept: 2008-08-12
The trashcan of the nation
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Quote:ALL OF YOU GUYS ARE THE HELICOPTERS. YOU STOPPED FLYING IN 2007 Truer words never spoken.
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The fraud and lies are only allowed to continue because the people allow it. Either through apathy or ignorance, they still allow it.
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Jwm_in_sb
Posts: 1041
Incept: 2009-04-16
California Desert
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I saw Mako's posts but I can't ssay I understand or agree with what he is saying. Frankly, I understand it better the way Gen explained it in the Ticker about how the loans are actually sold forward. IE, the banks get a pile of money from the MBS investors and then fill the pipeline with loans that were supposed to be of a particular quality...but weren't.
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Grashopa
Posts: 2609
Incept: 2009-02-03
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Mako is wrong in the manner of creating credit. The bank does not magic money into existence. They must have the money to lend out. But it is true the banking system as a whole creates credit because that money that got lent out? It eventually ends up in a bank again which then lends that money out a second time and so on.
Mako is confused over the fact that a bank can have 30x leverage. The bank does this by borrowing money from someone else. Borrowing money is not creating money as someone has to have had the money to give you.
It is the demand for borrowing and the willingness to lend that determines the total credit. Fraud pushed the willingness to lend skyhigh as everyone believed there was no risk. This supply brings rates down and increases demand. If demand is not enough? More fraud is committed at the end to allow people who can't pay back the loan to get a loan and so we get the 'subprime crisis'. Then of course the government steps in because they don't want credit to contract (deflation) for various reasons.
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Theft is evil
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