Maybe, but if you put a battery in w/o asking him first, and then hand him the bill, he'll sue you. Would you rather be blamed or sued?

-Uwe-

PS: Jetzzz, I'm just messing with Krush. I really do believe that BMW should pay for that battery.

Uwe,

I am not sure that Benzs and Bimmers went complicated because of Brenton Woods.

The Deutsches Mark was about mid $.30 then and I thinkin it actually dipped to mid $.20 in 1985 or so but by then, they had become very complex.

If you look at the German cars pre 80's, they were beautiful things to drive and maintain. The BMW 2002 , the MB 280S, and the Bavaria were awesome vehicles at a Buick price well into the 70's. When you opened the hood, you could fix anything with the tool kit they gave you - about the size of carton of cigarettes.

They got more expensive compared to domestic cars after Brenton Woods 1 ended, because the dollar declined relative to the Mark, but this had nothing do with the resulting complexity, which is by no means unique to German cars.

There was indeed a dip in the value of the Mark in the 1980s, but by that time MB and BMW had established themselves as "premium" brands and they didn't lower their prices correspondingly (charge what the traffic will bear). This led to quite a few gray-market imports for a while.

-Uwe-

Uwe likes complex german cars...it's what keeps him in business ;)

Putting so much electrical crap in a car that the alternator can't carry the load at idle is just bad engineering, IMHO.

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Putting so much electrical crap in a car that the alternator can't carry the load at idle is just bad engineering

OK, I'll bite - why not just increase the capacity of the alternator?

or give the alternator a two speed clutch/gearing of some sort.

Screw the battery, isn't the bigger issue here the "driving profile"? Does your vehicle record everywhere you go & how far you drive per day & such? Why would anyone want that info to be out there? And the fact that the dealership can look up this info and really, twist it to use against the consumer? This makes my stomach churn on so many levels. Does no one have a problem with this? I would never buy a car that tracked me or my movements...too Orwellian for me.

GPS, laptop cams, cell phone tracking, cell phone camera, now car "driving profiles"...can't even be anonymous in public anymore. Sucks.

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Screw the battery, isn't the bigger issue here the "driving profile"? Does your vehicle record everywhere you go & how far you drive per day & such? Why would anyone want that info to be out there? And the fact that the dealership can look up this info and really, twist it to use against the consumer? This makes my stomach churn on so many levels. Does no one have a problem with this? I would never buy a car that tracked me or my movements...too Orwellian for me.

How do I break this to you? ... all manufacturers do this now. And they've had that capability for a decade or so.
Yes, it bothers me.

Who wants all those ****ing gadgets in their car?
All that annoying blinking crap will give you a seizure...

Nomullet, you sound like my Aunt, in the early 1960s, when my uncle bought a new Ford:

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"Why did you get a radio in this car?"

-Uwe-

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Putting so much electrical crap in a car that the alternator can't carry the load at idle is just bad engineering, IMHO.

Headlights, rear defogger, HVAC, heated seats, heated windshield, heated outside mirrors, heated washer nozzles, electrically actuated power steering, electric fuel pump, a navigation system, plus a couple of dozen control modules; I'm missing stuff, I'm sure. The alternator can carry most of this stuff most of the time, but not all of it at idle.

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OK, I'll bite - why not just increase the capacity of the alternator?

Because then it takes up more space and generates more parasitic losses. Hell, alternators in some cars are already water-cooled.

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or give the alternator a two speed clutch/gearing of some sort.

What, you want add more complicated **** that's sure to break?

Seriously a networked energy management system is way more reliable than that!

-Uwe-

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Screw the battery, isn't the bigger issue here the "driving profile"? Does your vehicle record everywhere you go & how far you drive per day & such?

I don't think Jetzzz' BMW records where it's driven, just how often it's started and the how far it's driven until it's shut down again. This is useful for electrical energy management, as well as for calculating when the oil should be changed. Doing a lot of really short trips is very hard on the engine oil.

-Uwe-

Uwe, speaking of short trips, I went ahead and recorded all of my stops on a day that I ran a bunch of errands. Here they are:

Miles Destination
.3 Drove out of subdivision, forgot some items at home and returned.
.5 Dry Cleaners
.8 Starbucks
19.6 Wife’s office, Davis Monthan AFB (driven on highway)
.4 Base Exchange, Davis Monthan AFB
.2 Base Service Station, Davis Monthan AFB
50 ft Pulled up to pay for gas after pumping gas
.3 Base Commissary, Davis Monthan AFB
3.2 Macy’s
.4 Best Buy
8.1 Blue Fox Properties
8.2 Home Depot
4.5 Home
1.2 Wal-Mart
1.3 Home
Total mileage: 49.2 miles

I had 10 events/cycles of less than 5Km. Do I think that my battery was drained during the day? I don't think so.

Agreed, no issue there.

-Uwe-

I got a call today; BMW has agreed to pay me 784.55 to drop the lawsuit. I sued for the 384.55 cost of the battery plus 400 in legal costs.

UWE, I practice what I preach- I don't even have power windows in my truck. I do admit to having a radio. It even had a CD player that worked until my 2 YO put a bunch of change in the slot.

Ifly:

yay

Gratz!!

I don't think I'd own an out-of-warranty MB or BMW post-Lexus anyway.. I heard from my mechanic that MB had issues with one of their first electronically-controlled transmissions, whereby it had a fiber-optic cable from the ECU and trans fluid would leak into it, then go up the cable and short the computer..

Ifly, they should have ust put that battery in. Glad it cost them extra.
By the way we call them Bus Metro or Walk around our shop.

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1) Battery in the TRUNK???? There's enough room to put in under the hood. If it's for weight and balance, put a spare tire back in the trunk and get rid of the stupid, stupid run flat tires.
2) Registering a battery because the electrical system is extremely sensitive???

Battery in the trunk I can live with, but the lack of a true spare tire is what turned me away from the 3 series. They're pushing the "luxury" BS so hard, that they don't even have a cavity anymore for the USDM cars for the spare tire. That's straight bull****. Many Euro cars also don't have a proper engine oil dipstick either (again, ****ing retarded). The ridiculousness and overcomplicated electrical system on BMW's is certainly a Rube Goldberg machine. It's a shame, because their drivetrains and build quality are top notch. Like most cars these days, the older models are the better ones (e36's don't have many electrical problems).

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When you have a battery that "may be good" and a customer that wants his car fixed, you don't risk putting a battery that "may be good" back in.

When the "may be good" battery fails and the customer is stuck again, he'll be more*****ed off than being*****ed that you put in a new battery.

How I fix my stuff and how I fix stuff that I'm being paid to repair is completely different.

Very true, and this is how ALL repair shops work. If they think it's bad, they're more likely to just replace it, because the last thing they want is you coming back for the same problem. If this really bothers you that much, just fix it yourself.

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Very true, and this is how ALL repair shops work. If they think it's bad, they're more likely to just replace it, because the last thing they want is you coming back for the same problem. If this really bothers you that much, just fix it yourself.

If you fix something that's not broken and you charge me for it, you should go to prison.

Repair services are not "throw the customer's wallet at it indiscriminately until you find the problem."

Gen is correct.

Sadly, many mechanics today are not true mechanics and are merely "parts changers"

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Very true, and this is how ALL repair shops work. If they think it's bad, they're more likely to just replace it, because the last thing they want is you coming back for the same problem. If this really bothers you that much, just fix it yourself.

*BRRING!* *BRRING!*
"Hello?"
"Mr. Wildflower, this is Peter at Honest Wrench calling about your car, our voltage test shows your battery looks pretty weak.. We tested your alternator OK so it just looks like the battery.. Do you want us to switch it out for you?"
"No thanks, I'll do it myself, but thanks for the call!"
"No problem, see you in 3000 miles!"
"Cool, thanks!"