So do I Asi. So do I.

Remember, we're talking 10kW thermal. You'd be lucky to get 3kW of electricity from that, given the low grade of heat it currently produces.

Put 10 kW thermal in perspective. The heart of the heating system in my house is a 200,000 BTU gas-fired boiler. That's about 60 kW thermal, so I'd need six 10 kW units to replace it. Still, for $3000, that would be a no-brainer.

Put 3 kW electric in perspective. A modern house has 200A service at 240V. That's 48 kW. You'd need a minimum of 16 of these things (at cost of $8k) to truly replace that, plus generating equipment, plus some sort of heat engine, and a generator.

-Uwe-

For $3K you get 200,000 BTU equivalent and 18kW? I'll take that any day.

Well, except that the real running amps on 200A service rarely exceeds 50% (when it started to, occasionally, is when the 200A feed became common - it used to be a 100A feed in most homes.)

Let's say it's real and will heat up a heat exchanger to 120F. I would think it would have to run all the time, but that's not a problem.

If it can heat the air in the house and heat water to 120 that would be great.

if it can do that and the operating cost was under $5 per day (152 per month / 1825 per year) and under $1000 to install, I would buy one.

If I were marketing this I'd release it on December 21st of this year with Cindi Lauper and Jeff Goldblum as my spokes people (Vibes reference).

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For $3K you get 200,000 BTU equivalent and 18kW? I'll take that any day.

No, you don't get any electrical power at all without adding some kind of heat engine and generator. The heat engine and generator are pretty much guaranteed to cost thousands more, because getting any sort of reasonable efficiency from a ~100C delta-T is not easy at all.

-Uwe-

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My main concern with the reported test was that throughout the whole duration of the test, including when in "self-sustain" mode, the E-CAT was connected to a running 500 kW diesel generator.

Allegedly, the generator was only to "warm up" the reaction chamber to get it started. However, the generator was kept running for the entire duration of the test.

Yes, but everyone is barking in the wrong direction: A diesel generator wasn't plugged into Andrea Rossi at any time during the test, and look how much hot air he put off.

Scratch that Uwe. I read your earlier post much too quickly. Oops

Slartibartfast wrote..

Yes, but everyone is barking in the wrong direction: A diesel generator wasn't plugged into Andrea Rossi at any time during the test, and look how much hot air he put off.

bawhahaha

Um, low level gamma rays? Gamma ray is a level. The government isn't going to allow gamma ray emitters in peoples' houses.

Ya know, if this actually WORKS, irrespective of if the unit costs $500 or $5 million, this may be one of the few greatest discoveries in history.

Dollars are irrelevant at this point.

I think it's nonsense tho...

If it's real, I'll be one of the first to buy one when possible, for heating purposes.

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The government isn't going to allow gamma ray emitters in peoples' houses.

Imagine a homeland security swat team descending on your house because they detected gamma radiation. "Um captain, we found the emitter, the eCat shielding was leaking. We advised the homeowner to attend to it. over"

We would have advised the homeowner to attend to it had we not gunned him down. over

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Um, low level gamma rays? Gamma ray is a level. The government isn't going to allow gamma ray emitters in peoples' houses.

Depends on the energy. Nickel transmutations will produce gamma rays with an energy around 9 MeV, which is NOT going to be stopped by a couple of centimeters of lead. The claim is that it produces radiation with much lower energy but we have not yet heard specifics. If the energy lies in the X-ray band the lead shielding would be much more effective.

The other question is, how much input energy is required to create the fuel?

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The other question is, how much input energy is required to create the fuel?

If he is aiming for a price point of $10, it can't be much. If he gets anywhere close you could buy 60 of them for $600 and have a 30 year supply to match the expected life of the unit. $1100 for that much heat for 30 years.

I have to agree. Regardless of the actual cost, this will amount to the greatest discovery since the the Bohr model of the atom or the slit experiment. The need to expand energy production on the global scale has never been greater. Let's hope it's the real deal.

I've been watching this guy's antics for a while: a blog I follow can't leave it alone, despite the total and utter lack of anything plausible being produced, and more blatant disengenuity than a 419 scam.

It's not the real deal. It's a bunch of hot air.

Slartibart,

Not to nitpick, but if it produces 200,000 BTU worth of HOT AIR for $500+$10/mo, it'll still be worth having...

Like I said, I am sure that Andrea Rossi could do that.

His machine, however - Why would it start now?

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I've been watching this guy's antics for a while: a blog I follow can't leave it alone, despite the total and utter lack of anything plausible being produced, and more blatant disengenuity than a 419 scam.

It's not the real deal. It's a bunch of hot air.

Agreed. If this were the real deal, then Rossi would have eagerly sought certification from an independent testing agency. Instead, he has set up a website to solicit pre-orders as he positions himself for a private stock offering ... reaping potentially millions from share sales.

James: The only problem with that is that they are actually being manufactured. That's one hell of a scam if that's what it is.

Besides, what exactly could he get away with if it is a scam? A hit isn't that expensive.

Don't get me wrong, I still have some VERY SERIOUS doubts about it's viability, but there's also things that make me believe there may be something to it.

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James: The only problem with that is that they are actually being manufactured. That's one hell of a scam if that's what it is.

Where is this manufacturing plant? Do you have proof that viable, functioning E-cats are currently being manufactured, or are you taking Rossi's word for it?

Can you identify any real, bona fide customers who have purchased an e-cat, and who are willing to go on record that it's an amazing energy device?

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Besides, what exactly could he get away with if it is a scam? A hit isn't that expensive.

If he begins to solicit shareholders, then the scam reaches to a whole new level. Apart from that, Rossi might have significant psychological issues, which would explain most of the motivation behind the scams.

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but there's also things that make me believe there may be something to it.

Fine. Then tell Rossi to have his e-cat independently verified, so that he can receive his Nobel Prize the next day.

Ok, they're building the factory at least, even if it's not in production yet. So there's some big cash being dumped into the (apparently) robotic equipment.

Proof? No. If there was proof this discussion would be irrelevant.

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Leonardo Corporation will begin the production of Andrea Rossi Device by August of this year. Italian inventor Rossi said that distribution will probably start within the year but it is not a promise. He also revealed that they are working the certification for their Low Energy Nuclear Reaction technology so that they can sell it legally. Rossi stated that they are planning to produce one million home-based energy catalyzers of 10 KW before 2012 ends. This plan is definitely a big challenge to Rossi and his company.

In order to speed up the plan, Rossi said that Andrea Rossi Device will be built by robots. Martin Ford’s book entitled The Lights in the Tunnel talks about accelerating the use of automation in order to compete with cheap labor. China, for instance, is inexpensive because the labor is unbelievably cheap. It seems that this is exactly what Rossi’s company is currently doing. The logic of automation is absolutely the best option to step forward and bring the game to the next level. In response to the series of questions of a certain Keith W about the production and certification of Andrea Rossi Device, Rossi made the following announcements that worth a thought:

“We are making the certification. Attention: I did not say that we will begin to deliver in August, I said we can be ready to make order confirmations in Autumn; we are right now making the engineerization of the factory ( the production will be completely robotized to squeeze down the price as much as possible) and, even if we will be very good, the first deliveries will start perhaps within the year, but I cannot promise it; I can say that the price will be lower than expected and that it will be a revolution. We are making a tremendous work with top level Partners.”

Again. I'm not a believer. I just think that if it's a scam, it's one of the best.

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Again. I'm not a believer. I just think that if it's a scam, it's one of the best.

I'm 100.00% positive that this is a scam. As I stated a few pages back (in this thread):

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(1) Rossi has a long history of criminal fraud (roughly a half-dozen instances of convictions with fines and/or jail time);

(2) he has pulled similar stunts twice before, ending in bankruptcies and/or lawsuits against him;

(3) he's not a real scientist (his "diploma" is from a phony university);

(4) he can't explain the physics behind his magical device, and, indeed, his device is impossible under physical laws;

(5) there has been no independent testing to corroborate any of his claims;

(6) he has been laughed out of patent offices, who refuse to grant him patents based on the absurdity of the science behind his claims;

(7) he has never published any articles in peer-review journals, and his only publication is with his own website (the "Journal of Nuclear Physics");

(8) he refuses to identify his mysterious customers;

(9) if you watch the videos of his device, it produces no more steam than a small kitchen tea kettle;

(10) numerous deep-pocket customers have investigated Rossi's E-cat and concluded that it was garbage, including Defkalion, Ampenergo, Quantum Energy Technologies, and others;

(11) Rossi claimed that a large warehouse in Italy was being continually heated by his E-cat ... but he refuses to disclose the address of this building; and

(12) he's now actively soliciting customers for million-dollar investments, so the fraud has come full-circle, and once he snatches multi-millions from innocent purchasers, we'll never hear from him again.

How much more evidence of a fraud/scam do you need?

If Rossi is manufacturing and selling legitimate e-cats, then someone, somewhere, somehow should come forward to validate the claim.