You can't fight Ben Bernake and the Feds. I already gave up a few months ago. It's time for everyone to capitulate.

It can go down, if they screw up, drop some balls or start fighing betwixt themselves.

Every one of the *******s who voted for TARP is now stuck supporting his own bad decision, or admit he was wrong and lose his seat and possibly face charges. They need to be voted out of office and quickly but that's not going to happen until a majority of the people are suffering and that's not going to be until the deflationary or inflationary collapse occurs.

I don't see any other way this thing turns out.

It's going down like a Mexican Space Shuttle.

It's only a matter of time, and it's going to make 2008 look like a mere dip.

Stands to reason that if they can make the market go up, and claim full responsibility, then they are equally responsible when it goes down, no?

It can 100% go down. You just won't be on the right side when it happens. Which is exactly why I am hesitant to even take a position over a weekend.

Use good trading rules and don't violate them.

Medican, you're a braver guy than I am. No way am I trading this busted market .

Hats off to you and anyone else who is succeeding at it.

Lol, I had to edit what I wrote. The grammar made it sound as if this was going to work out. Sorry.

I 100% meant, you will find yourself on the wrong side of the trade when it goes boom.

Lol, gotcha. Cheers.

I will say this:

You are right Landshark, it will go down like a Mexican space shuttle.

Eventually.

I've been playing it like that for the last 2 years, and lost a **** load of money.

But I finally realized that as long as Bernank had the QE.x hose on full blast, I would end up like one of those protesters in Egypt standing in front of a water hose truck.

So now I just buy a little agriculture, a little oil service, etc. and wake up every morning and, voila, I'm making money. It's so easy a caveman can do it.

BOB can keep up doing the QE's but at some point its going to collapse everything.

I wonder when KKR will find market conditions right for their IPO. I think that their window is closing.

I didnt agree wih Karl on this point, but I think Europe is going to detonate and take this ****pile down.

Yields are starting to rise on PIIGS debt again. The problems seem to be getting worse over there.

Wave 1 is Europe.

Wave 3 is us.

a hundred years to create this train wreck- its not going to unwind overnight

Nomullet, you're right - I pulled my 401k back in August 2008, thinking that was it. I'm not sorry, but this has truly been a lesson in just how far cans can be kicked.

But I do think it will unravel when none of us are expecting it, and at lightning-quick speed, and probably sooner than we expect.

We're literally one step away from it all now. When China calls us on our bull****, game over.

Of course the market will go down at a certain moment. Just nobody knows when. But history shows that most markets move in sync. Thus I do not believe that Europe or any other market is going down first. I expect that the US and European markets will have the same long-term trend up or down... and so will most Asian markets.

Oops! KKR did indeed do their IPO already. I have to pay more attention.

Markets always go down. I've been playing it for 30 years now and have seen more than my share of share of crashes. Given enough time, it will crash again.

That being said, I believe what we are seeing in the market right now is a bubble, just as the tech market was in a bubble in the late 90's and the housing market bubbled in the mid-2000's. The market isn't behaving rationally right now and the prices are inflated given the underlying value. When the crash will happen is anybody's guess. It could be tomorrow, the Dow could continue on up to 14,000 before it crashes.

Personally, I started selling off my own stock the end of January. I've sold off about 2/3 of what I held but I still have a handful of companies left that I feel particularly good about and/or that I am awaiting dividend payments on. I think the market will be going up for a while yet before it crashes but I'd rather get out too early than too late. Nobody can time these things and it's making me nervous. My instincts (which tend to be pretty accurate, enable me to significantly outperform the market despite any particular financial knowledge) tell me the market won't survive the end of the year. I've made a lot of money in this market, but as they say, you haven't made a dime on a stock until the day you sell.

Remember, QE2 will eventually end. I don't think there will be a QE3, too much pressure from the other central banks. That will start to take some of the air out if the market hasn't collapsed yet already. And contrary to what Bennie and the Feds might want to believe, the economy has a mind of its own. It doesn't answer to anybody. If we could control it, we wouldn't still be looking at 20% effective unemployment, wage stagnation, reduced demand, etc. nor would we have had the crisis in 2008 that "nobody saw coming" and Bennie and the Feds were unable to prevent.

How big is the stock market?

How big is the bond market? $9tn federal debt held outside the government? How big is the corporate debt market? Muni market? How many trillions of dollars are people "owed" money.

How much cash is there? $5tn?

The amount of cash in circulation simply can not pay off those "entitlements" to fake cash. Bad assets are going to have to be written off. The money simply does not exist.

So, the market HAS to go down eventually.

However, I just don't know how all of these financial products can lose value without there being some sort of panic to own something real. We're talking trillions of dollars in losses here, and I don't really understand how cash can hold up value when bonds and stocks will crash. That little bit doesn't make much sense to me.

I used to be an inflationist, but I am really starting to mull over the deflation arguments. And all I can say now is I don't know wtf is going to happen anymore. It's just so unclear to me, the more I realize that it is not as simple as I first thought.

It went down a fair bit today didn't it?

It did drop a bit today.

Sure wish I would've found this place sooner than I did, when I actually had a chance to make some coin trading in the market.

No way would I trade it now. To those doing it, I salute you - you have bigger balls than I do.

What we see now is simply a computer-generated illusion designed to ultimately kill, and there's no way in hell I'd trade it.

I count myself lucky to have learned enough here to cash in what I could get of my 401k while it was still worth something.

Then question now becomes is this just temp profit taking or are we entering another bear market phase. I think it is more likely the former rather than the latter. Investors want to lock in profits and see how the situation in the middle east plays out. Bernake will not let this market fall too much.

"Bernake will not let this market fall too much."

Bernanke is a joke clown supporting the banksters. He can not do **** (because he is all about ****) about the market once it decides to really sell off - like a 15% to 25%.

The banksters better keep their Lear jets on alert like B-52s in 1960. Thirty minutes, wheels up, will be too late.

What I'm doing is staying out of the market (except for 401k in commodities fund) and preserving my wealth. For me, the safer play is go keep my powder dry until after then crash, then BTHFD (Buy The Huge ****ing Dip).

I'm hoping I can get a tractor in trade for a silver eagle.

Like I said. I don't think the market is going down unless they goof. Even if treasury yields spike, and they have to resort to printing, that will just spur people to invest in equities to be rid of the wretched dollars.

Granted, that's a worse case scenario.