1:50:25

http://www.robinsoncurriculum.com/view/r....

He was in Southfield?!

I still don't know how to address the BIGGEST challenge. What can I do with my 8-year old while I'm at work if I'm home schooling?

Pika, if you had one weekday and 4 other parents you could switch off. One thing, the ages of the kids don't have to match.

Scary stuff, what Robinson went through with the child protection stormtroopers.

Heh, I have the Robinson curriculum right here. My kid used a lot of it in her 6 years homeschooling.

And Steph, JStanley is correct. Think outside the box on this one.

If you can, find a local homeschool group (co-op) and see if there's a family or three who would take in your boy a few days a week. You assign the work, they simply provide a safe place for him to be while you're working. Then you put the bejeebus scare in him to be helpful and pleasant with those families so they enjoy having him around Maybe you could help them with some legal work in exchange, or take their kids on "field trips" on weekends.

Alternative - if you know anyone who has an in-home daycare, maybe you could put the kiddo there in exchange for him helping entertain the younger kids. Or, a friend who owns a store with a back room where he could be studying and quietly playing for the day.

Believe me, at this point if he only studies 3 days a week for a few hours a day he's still getting more education than a full week in public school. His learning to be self-taught and self-motivated in studying is worth its weight in gold now and later.

You've entirely convinced me. After studying the Robinson Curriculum for the past couple of weeks, I am COMPLETELY confident that I can teach him everything he needs to know. And I can ****ing afford $300 (I want those Henty books not just for Riley but for me) for a 12-year curriculum (+ the Saxon Math books every year or so). Hell, that's probably less than the school and PTO hit me up for every single year!

I sent you an e-mail a little while ago, Tesla. I need some guidance on how to take him out of school. Who and how do I notify them?

I think I have a way to work out my now two-day a week problem! Ryan's girlfriend wants to do it.

Also, since you've dealt with Robinson, can you tell me how responsive they are to support questions regarding materials or tech support? I sent them an e-mail Friday night (late) and have not heard anything from them. I am going to want to be confident that they will supply me with what I need and be reliable. They appear to be NEAR ME! The mailing address is Howell, Michigan!

Pika,
Most communities have home schooling co-ops or loose-knit organizations. There is/are a web sites where you can look them up for your area. Unfortunatley 90% are affiliated with churches: such as the "XYZ Christian Home Schoolers." I have no objection to my kid learing about religions or comparative religions, but I wouldn't be happy with fundamentalist based teaching. There are also some associations which are specifically "Secular Home School." They are much fewer in number. My kid is in 7th grade and I am still considering homeschooling. The local H-S Assn's share actual teaching duties with the kids. For example they all go the the local YMCA for phys ed. They go on field trips. It is worth investigating, and it has evolved from what you might think as your kids staying home all day and you having to supervise. It's not so much like that now. There are companies like my SIL works for who provide computer based classrooms for the kids for tough subjects like math and science.

My computer tech is a Christian fellow who home schools five kids, from about 5 to 15. He says they have a very active social life and he is always carting them around places, so the isolation of the kids is also a myth.

This is 12 years of education for $275?

I need some remedial phonics stuff for my youngest and haven't been happy with what I've found so far. I wonder (looking at Tesla) if the phonics section is good?

Here's the scoop - the Robinsons are based out of Oregon and they are not available full time. Not a big deal, because the tech support need is minimal. Other support is also minimal - you're on your own, which is no problem. You really, really can't **** up more than the credentialed teachers can. Just have confidence and a willing attitude to learn right along with the kid. Mistakes are not fatal; regroup and move on. Seriously - forgive yourself, before you even start, for all the mistakes you will make. Be aware that you can correct all your mistakes over time, and that the kid will correct them as they get older if you solidly ground them in the basic facts. The essential thing is to have patience and a good sense of humor. Once the kid can really read, they can teach themselves anything.

I've never tried the Robinson curriculum on Windows 7, but it works great on XP. What you will need is a good basic laser printer with cheap toner and reams of 3-hole paper, along with 3" binders. That will cost a bit but it's well worth it. Print 1-3 books a week and it's not onerous.

For the young kids (like Riley) the curriculum is very minimal. You start by concentrating on phonics, word drills, and math facts (addition/subtraction/multiplication/division).

Once you have the basics drilled (the basic 44 phonetic sounds) with those word lists, you start the kid reading the basic books provided in the curriculum. Feel free to add on the classics (the great books) like Treasure Island, the Henty books, C.S. Lewis etc etc. You also, like Robinson said, enforce some writing. A paragraph or three a day for the young kids, a full page or more for older kids. Review every day and correct their spelling and grammar. An old fashioned copybook is not out of place for a young kid like Riley. The premise of the Robinson curriculum, with which I fully agree BTW, is that by reading books full of good 2-4 syllable words and complex grammar, the kid learns them at a deep level until they are old enough to learn the explicit rules - 3rd or 4th grade on. I added on a grammar book at that time, with sentence diagramming.

On the math side, you just drill the math facts (just like phonics, the drill cards are part of the curriculum) and when they are secure in the facts, you start with Saxon 54 and as Robinson said, they should be able, with Saxon, to self-teach. It's just that simple. Since my kid was 11 when I pulled her and had already been on a computer for years, I supplemented with a computer program called Quarterdeck Math for times table and division speed drills. I also added a book of mental math skills to teach her the little tricks to doing math in your head, because I didn't have the time to do it for her.

Starving, in your case I'd need to know the age of the kid. You don't want to insult them if they're older but need skills, so what you'd use is a bit different. If your kid is say 10 and under, go to Staples or the grocery store or even B&N and get a phonics workbook. Yes I know, it sounds cheesy, but they are generally very good as skills drill. For an older kid, you have other ways to go like buy phonics flash cards and drill. What I'd do is buy Rudolph Flesh's book (no I'm not related and don't get a royalty it's just an incredibly good book jam packed with info). In the back of the book is the list of 44 sounds, and then word lists corresponding to the sounds. That's really all you need to teach phonics. Introduce the sound, go thru the word lists corresponding to the sound, and do it via writing, reading, and speaking. Learning phonics is nothing but drill. The point is, after 6-12 weeks of an hour or two a day drill via reading, speaking and writing, you are DONE with phonics drills and you go on to real reading, using the phonics skills. Drill is OVER. Then you just find some incredibly interesting books - think classics like Treasure Island, Chronicles of Narnia, Charlotte's Web, Robinson Crusoe, Swiss Family Robinson etc etc - and start reading together. Make the kid use their sound knowledge...refuse to read for them, make them sound out the difficult words, the object is to get them fluent and enjoy the story. If you need to, re-drill a certain sound they keep forgetting, and go back to the story. What makes phonics so successful is 1-once you learn it the skill never goes away 2-it enablers the kid to start reading interesting things very quickly such that they drive the pace because there's so much knowledge they want to have. For example, if your kid is heavily into video games and wants to but can't read the books that have all the hints for ways to get to higher levels, there's your incentive. Who cares what they read as long as it is 1-good knowledge and 2- THEY are interested in it.

Always push/provide the classic books, the Great Books. Why ? They are great/timeless stories, they contain good morals and values, they use complex words and grammar structures, they impart a great deal of historical knowledge, and there is no better resource to critical thinking than the great books. Kids love them if you will just introduce them. Compare, say, Treasure Island to a new Caldicott Medal book. See the difference ? The newer book has only 1-2 syllable words, the sentence structure is extremely simple, and the stories are boring boring boring. I hated almost all of those books, and after leaving school they were banished from my house.

Young kids like drill - make a game of it, keep it light, don't get discouraged. Sometimes kids pick up a lot of info all at once, then stall while that knowledge gets integrated. Then they are ready for the next leap forward. For older kids there's more baggage but once they realize they don't have to be ashamed or hide their lack of reading skill they are so happy.

There are actually more than 44 sounds in the English language; it's just that you can teach the others in the course of reading good books. You don't need to drill them; they will encounter those sounds much more infrequently in the early years but more frequently as the reading level increases.

Hope that helps.

Tesla - Excellent info! Thank you!

Tesla.... your posts about homeschooling are so helpful!!!

After reading that other article that was posted about 'whole word' reading
I asked my kids 10 & 11 if that was how they were taught in school

they couldn't remember— both my kids said that I taught them how to read

my oldest had problems reading at first — so I would sit with her EVERY day and have her read out loud to me sounding out the words and my younger one sat with us.

this was torture at the time but it worked— my daughter reads at 11th grade level now and I have a hard time getting her nose out of a book.

my son picked up on reading much faster but he had comprehension issues in the beginning— now, he reads a little above his grade level. He only does what is required of him.

I tell my kids that homeschooling is always an option that I may exercise at any time. My daughter doesn't want to homeschool but would be easier to teach. My son would do it but I think he would cause my hair to fall out. So for now— I supplement.

Mine will absolutely NOT be amendable to homeschooling - because she is a huge band geek. I don't have a band.

I can't compete with band camp and marching at football games I'm afraid :]

Tesla, she is almost 16 now but I see her struggling with her necessary school reading and it bothers me. I've been the tutor route, and saw great improvement. She just needs more.

She was taught that freewheeling spell it how you want stuff from K on and while we've made great strides, she just needs more help I think.

Thanks Jv, that's the purpose. I wish everyone would homeschool.

Vegas, what your son is doing is destructive in the long run - he's doing just enough to get by but no more. Why ? Guessing, it's because he's bored, not interested. OK, yes I push homeschooling and I stick my nose where it probably doesn't belong but in your son's case, not knowing him but just guessing, doesn't he teach himself the things he's really interested in ? If you watched the video Js posted above, you should take away two things. 1- that Robinson initially made mistakes and was able to correct them over time and 2-his entire homeschool involved the child teaching themselves in a prescribed sequence. Why, then, would you pull your hair out when you simply put the effort back to the kid. Note that he had his one son sit at the desk for hours for a few months, until the son finally just did as he was required. No play, no TV, no interaction, until the required work was done. No screaming, yelling, begging, just firm expectations. The kid might cry, but the parent needs to be a parent.

That's what I did with mine, and I was a single working parent. There were certain daily requirements, like a page of writing and one lesson of math. Once those were done, there were weekly goals to accomplish but they could be done on Monday or on Friday; I didn't care. Saturday morning we took an hour and went over the goals and the work. If something wasn't done, it got done on Saturday before anything else. If it was all done, we set goals for the next week and she was free to do whatever she wanted.

After 4-5 months of that, I didn't bother to do more than set a daily goal of writing and math, because mine blazed thru weekly work in 3-4 hours. She was finished an 8th grade level curriculum and a college level biology course complete with labs, in 5 months. So we went immediately into just not bothering with levels, we simply followed the math progression and she just kept reading and writing. Her reading list, self-chosen, was well over 100 books per year.

Funny story - at age 17 I decided she was done homeschool and it was time for community college. Her composition/english prof called her up after the very 1st class and asked WHF taught her to write - he hadn't seen anyone write with her skill for years. She laughed and said he could thank the great books authors for that. He practically cried when the class was over and begged her to take another with him, because she helped the others in the class so much.

The bad part was, she was so bored with CC and the classmates that she quit. Have you ever seen a kid pick up a 1200 page manual about equine veterinary practices and teach herself ? Yep, that's what she wanted to learn, so she did. All homeschooled kids, if taught to read properly, will do similar things when following their interests.

Starving - can you homeschool and have the kid participate in some school activities ? In PA the kids are allowed to do that. Some other states do the same, but not all do.

If homeschool is not an option, then this is what I'd do (knowing only what you've said so far). I'd have a chat with your daughter about her reading; don't let her brush you off. Go get ice cream or something and discuss her skill level. She may know her limitations and be interested in help to fix them. There's a very highly recommended curriculum called "The Writing Road to Reading" that emphasizes writing (spelling, grammar) as much as reading, all done phonetically. http://www.spalding.org/home/Essential.p.... The Writing Road to Reading I curriculum is what you want. I'd introduce it in the summer and get her to finish it over the summer. It's amenable to being used with older kids, ie it isn't babyish. You might mention that she'll get better grades easier and spend less time reading her books if she'd brush up on her skills.

http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Road-Readi....

I have discussed it, but not strongly. It embarrasses her, and as you well know 16 is the drama age anyway.

She fakes it pretty well, but she is struggling.

I've just ordered The Writing Road to Reading from Amazon, thanks for the link. I'm also thinking about getting her a Kindle, as all (or many) of the Henty books are available free at the Gutenberg site....and a host of other classics. We are extremely limited on space (we rent one room) so a Kindle would be better than a pile of paperbacks and I still have another Amazon gift card from Christmas.

Wow Tesla, it's great to hear from a TFer who has actually used the Robinson's curriculum. I ran across it too late for my stepsons to benefit.

thanks for the input Tesla

I know what he is doing is not good— but his 'awareness' light has been slow to turn on
—meaning, it is very hard to teach someone who can't reason rationally

EX: I teach him that 2+2=4 but he believes that 2+2=6 and nothing I can do, show, or say that will convince him otherwise—I am wrong and he is right—and I am stuck at that point because I can't get passed first base. FRUSTRATING

this has been the first year that I started to see him question himself and think "hey, I may not know everything"

I haven't watched the video yet — but I will —thx

I found it in the 2nd year we homeschooled - I was more interested in the method (self-teaching) than the curriculum initially, but then realized what a cost-savings it was and how much good curriculum it provided.

Instead of Sentence Diagramming, I recommend an introduction to Syntax. In my opinion, Sentence Diagramming is archaic, not very intuitive, and fails cross-linguistically because it is constructed specifically for English. The simplest syntax is Government and Binding Theory. The wikipedia page explains the basics of this. Pros of GB is that it is very intuitive, a sentence is read from left to right across the parse tree. Kids can clearly see the parts and how they all fit together. It is also language independent so you can use it to express the grammar of any language.

Personally, I remember hating sentence diagramming. I thought it was terrible when I had to learn it in school. When I more recently learned Syntax in grad school, English grammar actually began to make sense.

Skip: Probably somewhat a personal nit, but I'm in favor of more grammar and sin tax (lol) than Robinson seems to provide.

Reading at the level of his curriculum, they will know good grammer by what sounds right -- in the way it is tested for too. But being able to put names to nouns, pronouns, verbs, adverbs, adjectives, definite and indefinite articles, nominatives, datives, accusatives, genitives, substantives, predicate nominatives and predicate adjectives, conditional clauses, past-perfects, pluperfects, and past-referenced future periphrastics, and the such like is...

...well gosh-darn it's just fun for the whole family, that's what it is...

ha ha
another example:
my son just came home from school and told me they were learning about the sun today

he said he read that if the sun were hollow, you could fit a million earths inside it

the teacher wanted to see if the kids were reading so she asked the question

"How many earths can fit into the sun?"

a boy raised his hand and said "a million"

MY SON blerts out "that is wrong! You can't fit ANY earths into the sun because the sun isn't hollow! —DUH!"

the teacher looks at him and rolls her eyes and says 'we are going to pretend'

he tells me "that is SO STUPID"

He is LITERAL with EVERYTHING to a fault— especially rules.
— no abstract thinking skills yet

LOL! Vegas - My oldest used to be like that! He turned out to have an IQ of 150. So, be careful.

Well, thanks to Tesla - I have all the materials for this curriculum headed this way in a USPS package.

Anyone here on TF who is currently homeschooling, has homeschooled or is thinking about it - I'm contemplating pinning a topic for it. I still have a couple of logistics to work out, but I think I'm going to be pulling my 3rd grader out of school in the next month, perhaps sooner.

BTW, for anyone still on the fence about this program, TFers will be blown away at the economics portion of this curriculum. It's based on:

Economics: The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith; Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt

Watched the video last night and was impressed. Need to research more on the site but seriously considering starting this program. I need to get my husband to look at the materials.

Pika, this is awesome. As you know, I started the part time homeschooling this year, but I really like the idea of choosing my own curriculum like this, and the COST savings (I'm paying around $4k/year for the part time school). Really 3 hours a day for our age kids is plenty. Stuff can be done at any time - don't think of it like a "school day 8-3". Think of how much time is wasted during a typical school day - how much instruction is actually being presented? Like others said, get a co-op together and switch off. Do reading in the evenings, take a little time on the weekends. You can do it!

My best friend throughout grammar and high school has homeschooled her four children. She said she did it out of necessity, living in L.A. when she started and being in an undesirable school district, She is basically a fundamental Christian now so is using one of those programs I am sure. But I get letters from her children and have seen newsletters they publish. I am very impressed, they write far better than my children learned in public schools or the kids I saw when I taught at the community college. I would say that all of her children are working, or worked (some are in college now, earned scholarships), well above grade level. However she didn't work other than occasional nursing shifts on weekends. I don't know how it works out for people who work full-time. But Pika if you have one child, she had four, so I would guess it would be easier to share arrangements for you than it would have been her.

I think the biggest problem that public schools face, and you definitely avoid with homeschooling, is class size and behavior problems. I know that I know a lot of teachers and that is what they complain about, many who have been teaching for over 20 years, and they say it isn't the same anymore. I also volunteered when my kids were younger and it is exhausting to spend time in these classrooms! There are at least 30 children and was always at least one child, if not two, who were quite challenging and took up much of the teacher's time. I spent several years working as a child and adolescent psych nurse so I know of what I speak. In addition, teachers say they no longer have parental support. In fact, parents fight them when they try to impose classroom discipline and say "My little Johnny would never do that." My own experience with my children's friends' parents also bears that out (and it was rare I went to them, only in extreme cases, e.g. this was response I got once when I reported to father that his daughter had made suicidal threats, got screamed at for 15 minutes for lying to him........ thus felt compelled to go over his head for sake of his daughter's safety). I think our educational system has serious problems, blaming it all on the teachers is being far too simplistic. We need to get rid of tenure, there are some bad teachers, but there are plenty of good teachers too, and they say their hands are tied by a variety of things. Being forced to teach tests because of funding being tied to results, and having curriculums imposed from above are other problems that long-time teachers I know report. I know a couple who resigned early out of sheer frustration about 10-15 years ago, and they were excellent teachers. It had nothing to do with union issues. The number one complaints I hear though are classroom size and behavior issues, and that the issues are more difficult in schools that have high poverty rates.

I ended up pulling my oldest daughter out of public schools after 9th grade because her writing was so poor. She had made straight A's in advanced English the previous year. When she started at the Catholic school in advanced English, they immediately moved her to regular English and she struggled to pass that until she graduated. But she did learn to write. My youngest still can't write, but fortunately is very good at math and science and is studying pharmacy so doesn't need to know how. I kept her in public school for other reasons.

I think as long as you pick a good program, there are distinct advantages to homeschooling. I imagine its a commitment though. But then so is parenting.......