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MarketTicker Forums Read Message in Federationists
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User Info The right to freedom of travel in forum [Federationists]
Acenz
Posts: 9
Incept: 2010-11-09

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Regarding: "You have an unalienable right of locomotion."

The word locomotion is confusing to me here. How about "You have an unalienable right to freedom of travel."?

The larger issue, though, is an apparent contradiction of that statement with: "We have a collective right to a secure border"

Consider the following:

-- In order for something to be a true "right," it must apply to everyone, not just citizens
-- Most people coming to US from places like Mexico are in fact fleeing tyranny; they are therefore, for the most part, friends of freedom of liberty
-- The real problem is not an insecure border; it's the crimes that are committed by a small percentage of the immigrants, as well as abuse of various social benefit programs
-- Provided they do not commit crimes or leech off of benefit programs, immigrants help the US (jobs are not "stolen," they are created)
-- If you believe in a true right to travel, then it stands to reason you should also agree that immigration laws are immoral, and disobeying them should therefore not be a crime

The solution to the immigration problem is not to violate individual rights by preventing people from traveling freely, even across borders; instead, remove / prevent access to social benefit programs (perhaps by eliminating those programs), and enforce existing (and moral) laws against violence and fraud. Gaining citizenship, including voting rights, is, of course, different from freedom of travel.
Genesis
Posts: 130678
Incept: 2007-06-26
Admin A True American Patriot!
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There is no contradiction.

Second, why are you "contributing" to an American process when you're in New Zealand?

You're done in this area.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Nevertoolate
Posts: 1218
Incept: 2007-08-26
Gold A True American Patriot!
San Antonio de Bexar de runover with illegals, Texas
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"Provided they do not commit crimes or leech off of benefit programs, immigrants help the US (jobs are not "stolen," they are created)"

Acentz-

Yea, New Zealand has open borders too. I tried to just visit and it was a pain in the ass. I have lived in S. Texas nearly all of my life. It has been common fact that if you live near the Mexican border and are gone for more than a few days, your home will be broken into and vandalized. Bexar county hospital runs nearly $750 million dollar shortfall annually giving away free medical treatment to those illegals who are hurt coming or living here (in spite of the government saying there is not free health care coverage). They have a considerable population in the public school system without contributing anything to it. About the only jobs they help create are with the glass companies that have to be called to replaced windows that are broken. You live in a dreamworld!

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"Socialist never mind stealing, as long as they are the ones doing the stealing. They never mind lying, as long as they are doing the lying."-Mannfm11

Before you attempt to beat the odds, be sure that you can survive the odds beating you.

Reason: clarity
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