Ind. students use vouchers to flee public schools [General]

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User Info	Ind. students use vouchers to flee public schools in forum [General]
Cttocsjtemp Posts: 2643 Incept: 2008-06-11	http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44306300/ns/.... Quote: Some Catholic institutions are seeing a spike in enrollment By TOM COYNE updated 8/28/2011 5:01:23 PM ET SOUTH BEND, Ind. — Weeks after Indiana began the nation's broadest school voucher program, thousands of students have transferred from public to private schools, causing a spike in enrollment at some Catholic institutions that were only recently on the brink of closing for lack of pupils. It's a scenario public school advocates have long feared: Students fleeing local districts in large numbers, taking with them vital tax dollars that often end up at parochial schools. Opponents say the practice violates the separation of church and state. In at least one district, public school principals have been pleading with parents not to move their children. "The bottom line from our perspective is, when you cut through all the chaff, nobody can deny that public money is going to be taken from public schools, and they're going to end up in private, mostly religious schools," said Nate Schnellenberger, president of the Indiana State Teachers Association. ... ---------- It's gotten too big to hide behind the sofa pillow anymore. The ugly head is protruding and people are waking up from their sleep only to realize the nightmare is real. Last modified: 2011-08-29 20:54:44 by cttocsjtemp 2011-08-29 20:53:56 Permalink
Zzt Posts: 3040 Incept: 2007-06-26 Glendale az	Competition : the route to quality education. ( Usually the voucher is for much less then the state spends to educate each student. Make that voucher for the full amount the state spends and see what happens. ) 2011-08-29 21:19:58 Permalink
Mrbill Posts: 7857 Incept: 2008-10-19 North Carolina	Quote: nobody can deny that public money is going to be taken from public schools, and they're going to end up in private, mostly religious schools Nobody can deny that private money is taken from private citizens to create public money. 2011-08-29 21:25:08 Permalink
Pika-steph Posts: 54732 Incept: 2007-09-11 Live Free Or Die; US Army Est. 1775	Coming soon: religious-based education will be declared illegal. The principal of my son's school has been calling me in what I deem, 'marketing calls,' trying to get me to send him back to school this year. The conversations made it pretty clear my kid was being viewed as a stack of cash they were losing. And actually, my kid's designated money is going nowhere because he's now being homeschooled. ---------- Stop the Looting; Start Prosecuting - http://www.FedUpUSA.org/ "The only regulation that really works is failure."--Rick Santelli 2011-08-29 21:34:18 Permalink
Lowbeyond Posts: 16938 Incept: 2008-02-11 CO aka West NJ/East CA	Quote: said Nate Schnellenberger, president of the Indiana State Teachers Association That's all you need to know. Just like the wisc battle was really about the ability to forcefully confiscate dollars from their membership , all this is about is money. Teachers unions don't give a hit about the kids or anything else. All they care about us gorging at the public trough. Fukkem. Burn their homes down ---------- Maybe it was a birdy bread-bomber from the future?! 2011-08-29 21:52:45 From PDA Permalink
Mawachter Posts: 121 Incept: 2007-06-26 bremerton	Public schools get hamstrung by .gov making them babysit students who are disruptive and dont want to be there. The special needs students take an inordinate amount of money to babysit. Private schools dont have to put up with such nonsense. If a child wants to learn, they would most likely learn more in a private school (or homeschool). The public schools should find a way to go private and get the gov monkey off their back. ---------- Dr. Strangelove or: How I learned to stop worrying and love to BTFD. 2011-08-29 21:53:02 Permalink
Abn0rmal Posts: 9261 Incept: 2009-01-10	The teachers don't want the truth getting out that education does not fundamentally cost a lot of money or require special training or benefit from centralized micromanagement http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44316853/n.... 2011-08-29 21:56:21 Permalink
Mrgone Posts: 4229 Incept: 2007-09-15 The Event Horizon	I know many here applaud this but ask yourself, what will the destruction of the public school system do for the greater society all of us must continue to live in? You see, as pointed out, the private schools will exclude behavior problems understandably. But they will also exclude performance problems so their ratings don't drop. i.e. your, and yes that means you, stupid kids. So evisceration of the PS's may feel good but ends in even worse outcomes for the public at large. We need to fix the problems, not offshore them. Privatization of essential services has NEVER worked out well and I dare you to show otherwise. ---------- “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." - Leo Tolstoy 2011-08-29 22:03:48 Permalink
Pika-steph Posts: 54732 Incept: 2007-09-11 Live Free Or Die; US Army Est. 1775	Abn0rmal - My kid is going to have this as part of his schooling experience this year: http://therobotgarage.com/sign-up.cfm . Quite convenient for me that they JUST opened a few miles from us. Mrgone wrote.. what will the destruction of the public school system do for the greater society all of us must continue to live in? So, for the sake of 'the greater good' I'm supposed to sacrifice my own kid's education and potential? Sounds great. Sign me up. ---------- Stop the Looting; Start Prosecuting - http://www.FedUpUSA.org/ "The only regulation that really works is failure."--Rick Santelli Last modified: 2011-08-29 22:17:02 by pika-steph 2011-08-29 22:14:03 Permalink
Mawachter Posts: 121 Incept: 2007-06-26 bremerton	if you consider mail delivery essential, how about fedex vs usps. Yea, fedex is skimming of the 'smart' packages while usps gets the 'stupid' packages, but it seems to work. ---------- Dr. Strangelove or: How I learned to stop worrying and love to BTFD. 2011-08-29 22:19:57 Permalink
Genesis Posts: 130804 Incept: 2007-06-26	MrToBeGone wrote.. So evisceration of the PS's may feel good but ends in even worse outcomes for the public at large. We need to fix the problems, not offshore them. Ok, you've had more than 30 years of the lefty "progressive" agenda on this point, we've done as you suggest, and that agenda has utterly failed. Now explain why every proponent of this path should not be burned at the stake and fed to hungry feral hogs, and not just cut off from all public funds. ---------- I don't care* if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me* Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. *Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.* *What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?* 2011-08-29 22:22:38 Permalink
Mrgone Posts: 4229 Incept: 2007-09-15 The Event Horizon	Did I say that? You should do what you need to do as do I. That is not the question I asked. You turn it around and give the answer to the question you wished I asked. If you think a bit about the real question you may be surprised at the answer arrive at. Although I'm not holding my breath. ---------- “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." - Leo Tolstoy 2011-08-29 22:24:44 Permalink
Genesis Posts: 130804 Incept: 2007-06-26	If you're playing games here your account will be your namesake. I'll give you one - and exactly one - shot at cutting the ** on this issue right here and now. No second chances and no dodges. There is something VERY wrong about trying to guarantee equality of result. It can be done only one way - by ing the brighter and more-capable students in the ass, every day, for 13 years. I'm tired of it and so are a lot of other people, and the time to put up with that ** has come, gone, and now elicits a "shove that douche feet-first into the tree chipper" response from me. ---------- I don't care* if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me* Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. *Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.* *What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?* Last modified: 2011-08-29 22:27:24 by genesis 2011-08-29 22:25:47 Permalink
Lowbeyond Posts: 16938 Incept: 2008-02-11 CO aka West NJ/East CA	Oh bullsgit Mrgone. My best friend works at private school for kids with disabilities . Downs, autistic, etc. does she make a kick ass salary with gold plated benefits and a ridiculous pension. No she does not. Does she care. No she does not. Would she like one of those sweet heart govt union payscales , probably. But unlike her govt leech peers she does it because she loves it. She could prolly make at least 2x if she signed up to teach at the so called essential public schools. Get the government out and there will be a school for the so called bad eggs too . And god only knows how yoy went from vouchers to offshoring the problem.. ---------- Maybe it was a birdy bread-bomber from the future?! Last modified: 2011-08-29 22:29:40 by lowbeyond 2011-08-29 22:26:53 From PDA Permalink
Batgirl791 Posts: 828 Incept: 2009-06-20	I went to both public and private schools. I went to schools in Virginia, Florida, and Ohio in many different school districts. In my experience, each time I went from public to private, I had months of catching up to do. When I went from private back to public, I was always ahead of my class for at least half the year. All it will take is the first half of the school year for it to become obvious to the parents how much more their kids are learning and being pushed to their potential. What I'm afraid of, is the parents won't have the time or inclination to help their children catch up to the rest of the kids. My mom was willing to put in hours with me each day when I needed it, I have my doubts that the parents today are willing to. This was one of the private schools I went to (3rd grade). http://www.fairfaxchristianschool.com/ac.... Last modified: 2011-08-29 22:37:11 by batgirl791 2011-08-29 22:28:43 Permalink
Icanhasbailout Posts: 9939 Incept: 2009-03-10 Imaginationland	Quote: what will the destruction of the public school system do for the greater society all of us must continue to live in enable kids to learn something useful ---------- 2011-08-29 22:29:42 Permalink
Mrgone Posts: 4229 Incept: 2007-09-15 The Event Horizon	Quote: Ok, you've had more than 30 years of the lefty "progressive" agenda on this point, we've done as you suggest, and that agenda has utterly failed. Now explain why every proponent of this path should not be burned at the stake and fed to hungry feral hogs, and not just cut off from all public funds. Did you read what I said? Did I say all was good? This was the right path? The path suggested, at least to me by this rhetoric, is to eliminate the entire public education system. And there's a lot of that sentiment here. Yes, it's got some real problems. Some real big problems. What's your big idea? The magic bullet? To subsidize private schools? Vouchers? Come on. The cost of private education dwarfs what the public school system costs. Are the outcomes better? Sure. If you can select the group and charge out the ass you bet. You want a good education at a private school? Price it on out. Not for you or your neighbor but for all kids. Your taxes would double or triple. Well, of course if you think that education is not in the .gov interest and they should not be involved at all then yes. You will have the owners and those paid by the owners. BTW, the "lefty progressive" education idea has been around a hell of a lot longer than 30 years. It educated your parents. I assume pretty well. Before that there were those with money who got an education and those without who got jack. Say what you will, but even the bad education folks may get today beats nothing. At least in my shallow view of things. ---------- “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." - Leo Tolstoy 2011-08-29 22:42:45 Permalink
Starvingartist Posts: 3430 Incept: 2011-01-03 Puff The Magic Dragon	Some public educations are better than others. Having lived all over the U.S. while in school, and having had kids in public schools in various states since then - they are not all equal. ---------- "The only solution that is mathematically sound is politically impossible. All the should's in the world ain't gonna change that." 2011-08-29 22:48:53 Permalink
Obseedian Posts: 11872 Incept: 2007-07-26 BBRY Central	Quote: But they will also exclude performance problems so their ratings don't drop. i.e. your, and yes that means you, stupid kids. So evisceration of the PS's may feel good but ends in even worse outcomes for the public at large. Well, the world needs ditch-diggers too. ---------- Would you give your money to these banks? http://bankimplode.com/list/troubledbank.... “Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything.” - Joseph Stalin 2011-08-29 22:48:54 Permalink
Genesis Posts: 130804 Incept: 2007-06-26	Quote: BTW, the "lefty progressive" education idea has been around a hell of a lot longer than 30 years. It educated your parents. I assume pretty well. Yep, and (1) there was no special treatment, (2) if you couldn't keep up you failed, and (3) if you ***ed around and disrupted things you were expelled. You want your cake and then you want to eat it too. You want equality of result, which is impossible except by screwing the kids who are of average or better intelligence. You've had 30+ years of "your way" and it's time has expired. Quote: The path suggested, at least to me by this rhetoric, is to eliminate the entire public education system. And there's a lot of that sentiment here. Yes, it's got some real problems. Some real big problems. What's your big idea? How about this? You poop out a kid, you pay to educate that kid. Period. You can't or won't? Fine - we'll put you to work breaking rocks and paving roads. That solves two problems at once. ---------- I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me* Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. *Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.* *What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?* 2011-08-29 22:50:06 Permalink
Icanhasbailout Posts: 9939 Incept: 2009-03-10 Imaginationland	Competition between schools for students and funding, however achieved, cannot fail but to be far superior to the public education system. MrGone, really, time to come to terms with the fact that the paradigm of universal public schooling is an unmitigated failure. Putting government in control of schools politicizes them, and political goals crowd out educational ones to the point where no serious education can be achieved throughout much of the system. ---------- 2011-08-29 22:54:01 Permalink
Batgirl791 Posts: 828 Incept: 2009-06-20	When I started school in the early 70s, there were different public schools for the "slow" kids, the "bad" kids, and the "normal" kids. Somewhere along the line, these schools merged, and we have a school system that teaches to the lowest common denominator and let the naughty kids run amok. I think the best way to start to fix this is to put that system back in place so the "normal" kids can learn again. 2011-08-29 22:59:04 Permalink
Mrgone Posts: 4229 Incept: 2007-09-15 The Event Horizon	Never said any of what you are attributing to me or my posts. NEVER talked about equality of result or anything else. Never. I did suggest that the alternative to public ed would be worse for many than what we have now. Yes, it might be better for some, and that's real cool as long as your in the "some" group. ---------- “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." - Leo Tolstoy 2011-08-29 23:00:08 Permalink
Starvingartist Posts: 3430 Incept: 2011-01-03 Puff The Magic Dragon	They still do here Batgirl. There is a separate school for the trouble kids, I guess they don't really expel anymore. ---------- "The only solution that is mathematically sound is politically impossible. All the should's in the world ain't gonna change that." 2011-08-29 23:03:15 Permalink
Genesis Posts: 130804 Incept: 2007-06-26	Quote: Never said any of what you are attributing to me or my posts. NEVER talked about equality of result or anything else. Never. You protest and then turn around and say exactly what you said you didn't say. Quote: I did suggest that the alternative to public ed would be worse for many than what we have now. Yes, it might be better for some, and that's real cool as long as your in the "some" group. I tire of the games. Wanna be Gone? ---------- I don't care* if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me* Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. *Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.* *What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?* Last modified: 2011-08-29 23:05:16 by genesis 2011-08-29 23:04:37 Permalink

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