(Reuters) - President Barack Obama's national security adviser has briefed Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on a U.S. contingency plan to attack Iran should diplomacy fail to curb its nuclear programme, an Israeli newspaper reported on Sunday.
The Haaretz newspaper said that the U.S. adviser - Thomas Donilon - had described the plan in talks with Netanyahu earlier this month.
A senior Netanyahu aide, Harel Locker, refused to comment on the report when asked about it in an interview with an Israeli radio station. Another Israeli official reached by telephone, said "we do not comment on closed-door diplomatic meetings"....
Thanks for extra info on the MOP. Seems I was wrong in my speculations (assuming the supplied info is true and not misdirection). A bit surprising to find that they went for a huge steel alloy penetrator, but then again, ballistic tests on .50 cals fired into concrete blocks show very small deformations of the bullets, so I guess a huge steel "bullet" is the way to go.
But indeed, if this is true, this is a conventionally armed non-missile "version" of the Russian Granit, for all intents and purposes.
Will probably require pretty good AA and fast short-range SAM's to take it out. Such as the Pantsir S-1. Then again, it could be armoured like the Granit to withstand a large amount of punishment from AA fire.
Would be most interesting to learn of its flight path, my guess is its just a "dumb" free fall bomb path.
Given its flight path and modern AA capabilities, it would seem a successful MOP mission would require preparatory air strikes on nearby AA installations and/or on the ground Special Forces teams to locate any cleverly disguised AA installations that might be deliberately on optical and IR scan modes.
The penetration capacities of this weapon, if true, is excellent compared to a nuclear bomb. A nuclear bomb of around 150kT will - according to my calculations and I'm not an expert on nuclear weapons, but very familiar with the mathematics and dynamics of them - only achieve a penetration of around a maximum of 50 meters give or take, given a good partial underground detonation of the weapon (lest a non-rock vaporizing air detonation occurs instead), which would be hard to achieve (again, if my calcs are correct).
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"Yep - and that ****er didn't want to light either. I had to soak it in gasoline for a full day before that rat bastard thing would combust." - Karl Denninger ""We could not be more ill served if we had some South American tribal witch doctor shaking monkey bones at us. " - Infidel
Tactically, I doubt any the MOP will be exposed to any AA or missile defenses. Those will be taken out first and eliminated as a factor. There are (supposed) to be only about 20 of the MOPS. Give or take a 2x, 3x or more publicly understated factor you must assume. (remember the first rule of warfare... the first casualty is... (you know the rest.)
Yet still even if they have 100 of em, this weapon will face no numerical attrition. Each will find it's target.
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"The Spinning Cyclone Of Deflation Is Fueled By Deficit Spending. An efficient asset destroying storm powered by the printing press". - Me
When the Nazi's broke every law when coming to power, people in later years were asked, how were they allowed to do it? The answer was easy: They Simply Did It.
Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney would "respect" a unilateral Israeli strike on Iran should the Islamic republic develop nuclear weapons, Romney’s foreign policy adviser told reporters Sunday.
“If Israel has to take action on its own, in order to stop Iran from developing that capability the governor would respect that decision," Dan Senor said at the morning briefing.
"Yep - and that ****er didn't want to light either. I had to soak it in gasoline for a full day before that rat bastard thing would combust." - Karl Denninger ""We could not be more ill served if we had some South American tribal witch doctor shaking monkey bones at us. " - Infidel
Asimov
Posts: 104066
Incept: 2007-08-26
East Tennessee Eastern Time
If it can penetrate that deep, would AA fire really matter anyway? (Not that I think there would be any left by the time they dropped it, but curious about another opinion..)
The casing on it, even in thin spots, must be incredibly thick, especially since it weighs 25k+ lbs with only 5k+ pounds of explosives.
Maybe mess up/knock off a fin and/or throw it a little off course?
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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity. If you trade based on what other people say, you will lose money. Especially what I say. I won't be held responsible. Festina lente.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney in Jerusalem today that a “real and strong military threat” is needed against Iran’s nuclear program, according to a text message from Netanyahu’s office.
That's one of the questions I'm pondering. The Granit is hardened to penetrate deep into its target before nuclear detonation, and specifically designed to be essential impervious to any AAA fire, and resistant to SAM's. Since this is a newer and bigger weapon by approx. 25 years, it will probably be hard to knock out.
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"Yep - and that ****er didn't want to light either. I had to soak it in gasoline for a full day before that rat bastard thing would combust." - Karl Denninger ""We could not be more ill served if we had some South American tribal witch doctor shaking monkey bones at us. " - Infidel
Asimov
Posts: 104066
Incept: 2007-08-26
East Tennessee Eastern Time
I wonder what terminal velocity is on something that dense.
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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity. If you trade based on what other people say, you will lose money. Especially what I say. I won't be held responsible. Festina lente.
A former CIA analyst says the United States and Israel seek to come up with a pretext for attacking Iran by fabricating intelligence, a ploy similar to the one adopted by the United States for justifying the war on Iraq a decade ago.
“As we saw 10 years ago with respect to Iraq, if one intends to whip up support for war, one needs to find a casus belli - however thin a pretext it might be,” Ray McGovern wrote in an article.
“How about juxtaposing ‘weapons of mass destruction’ with terrorism. That worked to prepare for war on Iraq, and similar rhetorical groundwork for an attack on Iran is now being laid in Israel,” his article further read.
Referring to the recent attack on a number of Israeli tourists in Bulgaria, McGovern said, “Netanyahu broke all records for speed in blaming Iran and Hezbollah” for the bombing.
“On Fox News, Sunday on July 22, Mr. Netanyahu claimed Israel has ‘rock-solid evidence’ tying Iran to the attack in Bulgaria. The same day on CBS's Face the Nation, Mr. Netanyahu said, ‘We have unquestionable, fully substantiated intelligence that this [terrorist attack] was done by Hezbollah backed by Iran,’ adding that Israel gives ‘specific details to … responsible governments and agencies,’" McGovern went on to say.
The former CIA analyst added that Israel, however, has so far failed to provide any evidence for its claims of Iran's involvement.
“Bulgarian Prime Minister Boyko Borisov has admitted that he was aware of no information concerning the terrorist or those who dispatched him,” he underlined.
McGovern then refered to the historical moment when British intelligence chief Sir Richard Dearlove admitted that intelligence on Iraq had been fixed.
"… Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove [executed Iraqi dictator] Saddam [Hussein], through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD [weapons of mass destruction]. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy,” Dearlove said on July 23, 2005.
“The likelihood of hostilities with Iran before the [US] presidential election in November is increasing. Beware of "fixed" intelligence,” McGovern concluded.
MYA/GHN/HJL/IS
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Success in life is a matter not so much of talent and opportunity as of concentration and perseverance.
Yonatan
Posts: 321
Incept: 2010-01-15
Maccabim, Israel
An Iranian mouthpiece news organization is the source for that last post. Not that it matters, as soon as Netanyahu and Co. decide that the time is up for Iran, Iran is going to be attacked. He doesn't need to build any case for those of us that live in Israel. We all know if we don't do something about it, they will get nuclear weapons and they will use them on us. I could see a case being made for letting them get dangerously close to acquisition and then using our nuclear assets preemptively. The world couldn't say squat about it (though they will anyhow) as they were given a decade to do something about it and all they could come up with was sanctions that didn't amount to a speed bump to them. Fugly.
An Iranian mouthpiece news organization is the source for that last post.
Yup. Isn't if funny that damn near *everything* the US puts out with regard to Iran is presumed to be an outright lie around here and we get links to articles on Iranian ".ir" Websites to set us straight.
Here's some more headlines from that site, hot off the press:
Quote:
‘Western sanctions on Iran backfire’ ‘Extremism, West's tool to split Muslims’ ‘Turkey fishing in Syria’s murky waters’ ‘US destabilizing Syria to salvage Israel’ ‘Turkey conned by US over Syria’ China fumes at US over Iran sanctions
USA=bad. Israel=Evil. Iran=innocently picking daisies and peacefully developing nuclear energy.
I'll be watching that site religiously for the "12th Imam emerges briefly from well, tells Ayatollahs to text him when the 'Final Battle' with Infidels is underway" Headline.
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"There are two places only where socialism will work; in heaven where it is not needed, and in hell where they already have it.”– Winston Churchill
PressTV has a track-record of being pretty propagandish, to the point of being silly. Even FarsNews and The Tehran Times are much more reliable. I think of PressTV as the Iranian Debka.
On July 27, just before Friday prayers, Iran’s supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei summoned top Iranian military chiefs for what he called “their last war council.”
“We’ll be at war within weeks,” he told the gathering, DEBKAfile’s exclusive Iranian and intelligence sources disclose.
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"Until we look beyond the throne where the power structure lies, we'll fight amongst ourselves as freedom dies. The only hope for human kind lies in solidarity. The strength in our numbers sets us free."
Landshark
Posts: 11316
Incept: 2008-02-07
The Wild West
Well, Cash, there are two sides to every story. Sometimes the truth is in the middle, and sometimes it's not.
If you want to go on believing everything Wolf Blitzer and Brian Williams tell you, go ahead.
Quote:
‘Western sanctions on Iran backfire’ ‘Extremism, West's tool to split Muslims’ ‘Turkey fishing in Syria’s murky waters’ ‘US destabilizing Syria to salvage Israel’ ‘Turkey conned by US over Syria’ China fumes at US over Iran sanctions
Congrats, the burden of proof is upon you to disprove the above statements.
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Success in life is a matter not so much of talent and opportunity as of concentration and perseverance.
Landshark, I don't see much difference between Wolf Blitzer, Brian Williams and Laurel & Hardy. A bunch of jokers in my book. I also think an attack on Iran will cause more problems than it solves. I'm just reacting to the increasing tendency around here to reflexively presume everything the US is doing with regard to Iran is part of some wicked conspiracy hatched in Hell, while at the same time Iran seems to be given the benefit of the doubt.
You are right that the truth is somewhere "in between", and Iran, the West, and Israel are all acting in what they percieve as their own interests, but given the professed beliefs and prior statements made by various members of Iranian leadership, I find them even less trustworthy than our own government. It's not for me to *disprove* propaganda posted on Iranian news outlets, they're the ones presenting it as "news" - the burden of proof is on them
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"There are two places only where socialism will work; in heaven where it is not needed, and in hell where they already have it.”– Winston Churchill
Netanyahu, Barak to tell Panetta: Israel reserves the right to defend itself
U.S. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta arrived in Israel last night for a brief visit that will focus on the American-Israeli dispute over whether to attack Iran's nuclear facilities. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak plan to stress that Israel reserves the right to defend itself, and to make its own decision on whether to attack.
Another major topic of discussion will be efforts to prevent Syria's chemical weapons from reaching Lebanon.
Panetta's visit comes against the backdrop of a rash of media reports about the possibility of an Israeli strike. In a series of interviews with Israeli television stations on Tuesday, Netanyahu said, "Iran wants to annihilate us. I won't let that happen."
He also stressed that regardless of the defense establishment's views, it's the government that will make the decision on whether to attack. He was responding to media reports stating that virtually all senior defense officials, including Israel Defense Forces Chief of Staff Benny Gantz and Mossad chief Tamir Pardo, vehemently oppose an attack now, in the run-up to the U.S. election in November.
As for international objections to an Israeli strike, he said, "I'd be happy if the world, and the United States, would do the job."
Panetta: U.S. prepared to implement 'other options' to prevent a nuclear Iran
U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta warned Wednesday that the United States is prepared to implement 'other options' if Iran continues to work toward attaining nuclear weapons.
Except there's no proof that they are. So eh. Even if they were, they are years away from a working 1940s style nuke. And then add another 5-10 years for a 1960s style nuke.
Israel tells US time is running out for peaceful end to Iran nuclear dispute
Israel told visiting Defense Secretary Leon Panetta on Wednesday that time was running out for a peaceful settlement to the nuclear dispute with Iran because sanctions and tough talk over possible military action were failing to sway Tehran.
INSS chief: Israel under threat from 'only' 1,000 missiles
Institute for National Security Studies (INSS) Head Major General (Res.) Amos Yadlin said Wednesday that "Israel is under threat by a total of 1,000 effective missiles and not 200,000 as previously claimed. Syria does not have one accurate missile and there are 190,000 inaccurate short range missiles in the region."
Well duh. The only thing that can REALLY hurt Israel would be chemical/biological weapons used on civilian populations... and if Syria does that, they'll get nuked.
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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
Netanyahu again hinted that Israel could take matters into its own hands as he accused Washington of taking too long to move on to a war footing.
"You yourself said a few months ago that when all else fails, America will act," he told Mr Panetta. "But these declarations have also not yet convinced the Iranians to stop their programme.
"This must change, and it must change quickly because time to resolve this issue peacefully is running out."
Avianphlu
Posts: 3977
Incept: 2008-12-03
Ulster NY
right on landshark and if you think "the people" own and run the USA...you are mistaken..we have been usurped by banks and foreign interests loyal to said banking institutions...the REPUBLIC IS DEAD and don't have any ILLUSIONS about that FACT
AIPAC pushes bill that will establish virtual state of war with Iran
Vote Yes – The Iran Threat Reduction and Syria Human Rights Act (H.R.1905) Dear Representative, We write in strong support of H.R. 1905, The Iran Threat Reduction and Syria Human Rights Act of 2012. The legislation, authored by Representatives Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and Howard Berman, will be considered by the House on Wednesday. We strongly urge you to vote YES.
In an effort to dissuade Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapons capability, the House overwhelmingly passed in December the Iran Threat Reduction Act which tightened sanctions on Iran. The version that has now emerged from House-Senate negotiations includes the strongest set of sanctions ever enacted to isolate any country with which we were not in armed hostilities. H.R. 1905 incorporates legislative initiatives of many members from both the House and Senate and will:
place virtually all of Iran’s energy, financial, and transportation sectors under U.S. sanction. Companies conducting business with Iran in these sectors face losing access to U.S. markets; impose sanctions designed to prevent Iran from repatriating any proceeds from its oil sales, thus depriving Iran of 80 percent of its hard currency earnings and half of the funds to support its national budget; impose tough new sanctions on the National Iranian Oil Company (NIOC), the National Iranian Tanker Company (NITC) and Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC); target Iran’s use of barter transactions to bypass sanctions, the provision of insurance to Iran’s energy sector, and the provision of specialized financial messaging services to the Central Bank of Iran;
In the past six months, the United States and our international partners have substantially increased the economic pressure on Iran and engaged in several rounds of talks with Tehran. Unfortunately, Iran has rebuffed the opportunity for serious negotiations while stepping up the pace of its nuclear program.
America and our allies must unite in a tough response to Iran’s belligerent approach. We must continue to send a strong message to Tehran that it will face unremitting pressure until it complies with its international obligations and end its nuclear weapons quest.
We strongly support The Iran Threat Reduction and Syria Human Rights Act (H.R. 1905) and urge you to vote YES on Wednesday. Sincerely,
The bill just passed congress today.
Ron Paul on the bill :
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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
Ahmadickandnutjob calls for annihilation of Israel
In Ramadan speech to ambassadors from Islamic countries, Iranian president says "horrible Zionist current" has been managing world affairs for 400 years, adds that liberating Palestine would solve all world problems....
The former Mossad chief Efraim Halevy, who told The Times of Israel in an interview in March that there would be “nothing else left” but a resort to force if the diplomatic track with Iran did not quickly produce a breakthrough, hinted Thursday that the moment of truth on Iran’s nuclear drive was now imminent.
“If I were an Iranian, I would be very fearful of the next 12 weeks,” Halevy, who is also a former national security adviser and ambassador, told The New York Times.
In a recording broadcast on Channel 2 news later Thursday, he added that Israel’s threats of military action had a certain “credibility and seriousness.”
The New York Times report, focusing on Wednesday’s talks here by Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, said there was “feverish speculation” in Israel that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu “will act in September or early October.”
...
Asked whether he believed the Israeli government wanted a diplomatic solution, he answered: “I’m not sure every Israeli wants a diplomatic solution… I’m not sure that the government is entirely behind this support for a diplomatic solution.”
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"Until we look beyond the throne where the power structure lies, we'll fight amongst ourselves as freedom dies. The only hope for human kind lies in solidarity. The strength in our numbers sets us free."
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