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| Iran in forum [GeoPoliticsNews]
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Obseedian
Posts: 11872
Incept: 2007-07-26
BBRY Central
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LOL, I cut and paste that (well, except for the mangling of nutjob's name) from the original title, it appears they have changed it
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Obseedian
Posts: 11872
Incept: 2007-07-26
BBRY Central
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Hey as it turns out I still had the original article in a browser tab. They didn't even bother to change the timestamp on it. 
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Vitchilo
Posts: 4627
Incept: 2011-04-27
Online
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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
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Avianphlu
Posts: 3970
Incept: 2008-12-03
Ulster NY
Online
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Ob...JPOST would add their own "additional language". The actual speech never mentions it. More beating of the War Drums.
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Jeffrey_thomason
Posts: 7083
Incept: 2009-03-11
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http://www.jpost.com/Features/FrontLines....Quote:
[Former head of Israeli Military Intelligence from 2001 to 2006] Maj.-Gen. (res.) Aharon Ze’evi Farkash is worried.
So worried that he decided this week to break his longstanding silence on Iran and to share his concerns with the world.
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What prompted Farkash to speak out this week? A concern that an Israeli attack against Iran’s nuclear facilities could take place within the near future, a move that he says would be premature.
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Israel, he explains, will likely not want to attack right before the US presidential elections on November 6.
“I think that within this window it is difficult to imagine that something will happen a month before elections,” he said.
Farkash added that from what he is reading and hearing a decision is not far off.
But, he warns, a strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities now would be wrong.
“The timing is not now since, even if it is successful, it will ruin the legitimacy that is needed,” he said, suggesting instead that Israel wait six to eight months or even until spring 2013 before deciding on such an attack.
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“An attack is not a single strike and once it happens we are in a whole other world,” he said. “Iran will pull out of the Non-Proliferation Treaty, [Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali] Khamenei and [President Mahmoud] Ahmadinejad will reunite and it will be clear that they need a bomb now so that we cannot attack them again.
This means that Israel will need legitimacy to be able to maintain the operation with more attacks within weeks, months and years after. Otherwise what did you do?” “Israel needs to know if it can, over time, ensure that the attack is maintained,” he added. “This is the key to success or failure.”
Reading between the lines here, it sounds like the former Intelligence chief feels that an Israeli strike is imminent, within the next month, two at the most.
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"Until we look beyond the throne where the power structure lies, we'll fight amongst ourselves as freedom dies. The only hope for human kind lies in solidarity. The strength in our numbers sets us free."
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Landshark
Posts: 11307
Incept: 2008-02-07
The Wild West
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 Now, would how would you feel if: A) Russia was installing bases in Mexico B) Russia was installing bases in Canada C) Russia was parading its naval forces up and down the east and west coast, and the GOM. D) Russia was twisting every word from US leadership into "We must wipe Mexico off the map!" Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to morph the Iranians into saints. But let's at least keep it real. Iranians have every right to develop nuclear power as every other country that now has it. Fine, you want to develop peaceful nuclear power, go for it. The message that needs to be transmitted is, you lob one at us, or at Israel, and you will be a glass bowl. No ifs, ands or buts. Glass bowl. Pull the naval forces. Pull the bases. We can't afford it. Walk softly, carry a big stick. And you know none of the above will happen because this has nothing to do with Iran being a member of the "Axis of Evil"
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Success in life is a matter not so much of talent and opportunity as of concentration and perseverance.
– C. W. Wendte
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Cashncarry
Posts: 5091
Incept: 2007-07-24
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Quote:Ob...JPOST would add their own "additional language". The actual speech never mentions it. More beating of the War Drums. Could be. Let's see where JPOST got that from... Quote: "Anyone who loves freedom and justice must strive for the annihilation of the Zionist regime in order to pave the way for world justice and freedom.” In that statement he isn't saying Israel should be annihilated per se, but rather "annihilation of the Zionist regime". I could see why Israelis would take umbrage though. The term "annihilation" is a loaded word. Sadam's regime in Iraq was pretty much annihilated by the US and some of its Allies, so if taken in that context I could see how Israelis would take the statement as a threat. It has to be a bit unnerving if you are under the impression Iran is developing nukes while at the same time talking about things they would like to see annihilated. I'm sure Ahmadinejad's apologists around here will make every effort to prove he didn't mean it that way, or that his intentions with regard to Israel are being misconstrued. Carry on.
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"There are two places only where socialism will work; in heaven where it is not needed, and in hell where they already have it.”– Winston Churchill
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Cashncarry
Posts: 5091
Incept: 2007-07-24
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Quote:The message that needs to be transmitted is, you lob one at us, or at Israel, and you will be a glass bowl. No ifs, ands or buts. Glass bowl. Landshark, I don't disagree with that at all. There's a problem with the Mutual Assured Destruction policy though - if the Mullah leadership over there is on a mission to initiate some final battle with the Infidels in order to usher in the return of the 12th Imam, and doesn't care that the action will result in the deaths of millions of their own people. I'm not so sure I want to bet my children's future on the sanity and goodwill of the Iranian Clerics that run that place. The Cleric that is next-in-line to be the Supreme Leader over there is an adherent to the "12'er" sect. That causes me concern. And no, I'm not big on the idea of blasting Iran with B2's dropping MOPs as I think it will only solidify the power of the regime over there, and they'll just rebuild whatever we destroy with even more vigor. It's a ****ty situation for sure.
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"There are two places only where socialism will work; in heaven where it is not needed, and in hell where they already have it.”– Winston Churchill
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Landshark
Posts: 11307
Incept: 2008-02-07
The Wild West
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Cash, trust me, they want to survive. They know it's in their best interests. The idea that every Muslim is willing to be a human bomb is poppycock at best.
They want to survive, they want to see it, some of them want to participate in it.
So let them wait patiently for their savior to crawl out of a well in Egypt (I think that's where it is).
They'll be waiting forever.
Otherwise, develop your nukes. Pakistan has them. India has them. No problem with either of those countries.
Lob one of your lousy nukes at us, and you're a glass bowl. Send that message and they'll know we're not ****ing about.
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Success in life is a matter not so much of talent and opportunity as of concentration and perseverance.
– C. W. Wendte
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Cashncarry
Posts: 5091
Incept: 2007-07-24
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We already have a context for Ahmadinejad's statement.
Based on everything he has stated on the subject throughout his tenure as Iranian President, it is clear he wants Israel as a nation "destroyed" – either through internal revolt, outside force or a combination of both. When he says "Zionist Regime" he's referring to Israel as a political entity and and he'd like to see it cease to exist as an entity – and return to what existed prior to 1946.
he's NOT saying that the leadership of the current state of Israel needs to be replaced, especially when taking into account the many times he's stated his desire to see Israel no longer around.
I would agree that the corrupt leaders of our country which are limiting our liberties, stealing from us, etc., should be replaced - but I want this place to still exist as an entity and to be the Republic it was intended to be by its founders. I have no desire to see us go back to a pre-1776 arrangement around here, and I'm not big on the idea of returning the continental US back to Native American rule.
If you ask Ahmadinejad if he would tolerate the State of Israel if they had an election and replaced "corrupt Zionists" with anything other than an Islamic Theocracy, you probably wouldn't like his answer. He wants what is now Israel replaced with a Palestinian state ruled by the tenets of Islam, regardless of whether it is achieved peaceably or with violent force. Let's stop pretending Apples and Oranges are the same.
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"There are two places only where socialism will work; in heaven where it is not needed, and in hell where they already have it.”– Winston Churchill
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Landshark
Posts: 11307
Incept: 2008-02-07
The Wild West
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Quote:Based on everything he has stated on the subject throughout his tenure as Iranian President, it is clear he wants Israel as a nation "destroyed" – either through internal revolt, outside force or a combination of both. When he says "Zionist Regime" he's referring to Israel as a political entity and and he'd like to see it cease to exist as an entity – and return to what existed prior to 1946. Wrong. He and they have been saying they want the Zionist Regime there destroyed. Stop believing everything the western media tells you. Get an accurate, unbiased translation. Jerusalem is a key part of their plans for the 12th Imam. They don't dare want it destroyed. They don't dare want every Jew destroyed, because in their theology, Christ is going to return from heaven in Jerusalem and join forces with the Mahdi. Dare yourself to dump whatever you're reading about Iran from Debka, the JP, western media. Dare yourself to rethink what actually happened in 1979. Dare yourself to rethink who caused it and why. Only at that point will you be on your way to the truth. Rid the idea of "conspiracy" from your mind. If there's a conspiracy, it's been the one shaped and fed to an increasingly pasty, dull, unresponsive U.S. citizen who's just happy to sit on their fat ass and let their liberties be stolen from them. Get in touch with the idea that facts, which shape your thinking, for the most part, will not come to you via MSM. Get in touch with the fact that this world is not a nice place, where justice matters and is carried out rightly. Don't believe me? Ask Zimmmerman. If you've ever lived in a small town and paid attention to how things run, you already know this. Those that have the money control the board. They call the shots. Everyone is at their bidding. It's not a conspiracy to say that this also works on a macro-scale.
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Success in life is a matter not so much of talent and opportunity as of concentration and perseverance.
– C. W. Wendte
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Cashncarry
Posts: 5091
Incept: 2007-07-24
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Quote:Cash, trust me, they want to survive. They know it's in their best interests. The idea that every Muslim is willing to be a human bomb is poppycock at best. Certainly not every Muslim, not even most. The Mullahs wouldn't be the ones dying though, as they'd be somewhere secure. I could see a zealot leader willing to risk the lives of millions if he thinks he's fulfilling some divine prophesy. Still, they couldn't be that bat**** crazy could they? I hope not. http://investmentwatchblog.com/irans-sup....Quote:In his recent message, Ayatollah Hamenei warned the Iranian people of the coming of the Mahdi, the Hidden Imam, the last and awaited prophet who will appear for the Doomsday to save the world and impose Islamic world order.
Mr. Hamenei stressed the coming of the Mahdi was prophesized in the Quran and all Iranians were to prepare for it.
He said that, if the Iranian people believed themselves to be the soldiers of the Twelfth Imam, they should get ready to be led by Allah to the war to help the Islamic civilization triumph over the world.
“It is our destiny,” the Iranian spiritual leader concluded.
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"There are two places only where socialism will work; in heaven where it is not needed, and in hell where they already have it.”– Winston Churchill
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Landshark
Posts: 11307
Incept: 2008-02-07
The Wild West
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Cash, it might just be that "bat**** crazy" is the view that your western masters want you to have toward Iran.
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Success in life is a matter not so much of talent and opportunity as of concentration and perseverance.
– C. W. Wendte
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Cashncarry
Posts: 5091
Incept: 2007-07-24
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If that's the case, Landshark, then the Iranian Mullahs and Ahmadinejad are sure giving my Western Masters plenty of juicy quotes with which to aid in brainwashing me. Good thing I can count on the fine folks here to pull articles from places like Infowars and State-run Iranian news outlets to assist me in realizing the error of my ways.
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"There are two places only where socialism will work; in heaven where it is not needed, and in hell where they already have it.”– Winston Churchill
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Landshark
Posts: 11307
Incept: 2008-02-07
The Wild West
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Quote:If that's the case, Landshark, then the Iranian Mullahs and Ahmadinejad are sure giving my Western Masters plenty of juicy quotes with which to aid in brainwashing me. Good thing I can count on the fine folks here to pull articles from places like Infowars and State-run Iranian news outlets to assist me in realizing the error of my ways. Regime change, er, excuse me, liberating Iraq, Egypt (think hard before you say we had nothing to do with that). Yemen. Libya. How's that all working out? Who's running things now? What do they believe? The western-created entity known as the Muslim Brotherhood? Get out!!!! Lol, was there ever any doubt? Was that a worthwhile effort or a colossal waste of human flesh, money, and time? Do you feel safer because Uncle Cheese spent our tax dollars, our assets, and our people, on this? This "effort to make us safer"? This "responsibility to protect"? So, you're saying you support the fact that your income is being sucked away to support the change of a regime which has no designs to harm you? Well, that says a lot. Get Iran out of your head. What was Libya doing to us. Say "Lockerbie" or "bombing discos in Berlin" and I'll invite you to do some homework. Cash, you are so, so asleep, believing everything the Matrix tells you.
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Success in life is a matter not so much of talent and opportunity as of concentration and perseverance.
– C. W. Wendte
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Cashncarry
Posts: 5091
Incept: 2007-07-24
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Quote:Jerusalem is a key part of their plans for the 12th Imam. They don't dare want it destroyed. They don't dare want every Jew destroyed, because in their theology, Christ is going to return from heaven in Jerusalem and join forces with the Mahdi. Who said they wanted Jerusalem destroyed? They want the Jewish State known as ISRAEL to cease to exist. Doesn't mean they have to kill every Jew and destroy every city West of Jordan to achieve that. They will not destroy Jerusalem, Gaza, etc. But Tel Aviv? Of course.
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"There are two places only where socialism will work; in heaven where it is not needed, and in hell where they already have it.”– Winston Churchill
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Landshark
Posts: 11307
Incept: 2008-02-07
The Wild West
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No, go back and read the MSM transcripts of what was said vs. what was actually said. They said the Zionist regime has to go.
Here's where we see if you have balls or not:
What's wrong with that statement? What gives them, "Israel", the right, to commit genocide, as they storm in under their flag flying the Ashteroth Star? (No, it's not the Star of David, any more than the "Christian Cross" is).
One day, a Rothschild just up and decides that that land belongs to another people, and before you know it, people from central Asia are coming in to populate it, getting armed (guess where they got the weapons) and exterminating everyone else who was previously there (with the help of guess who?) and the "Christian" world claps and yells in jubilation?
Sounds kinda like "Manifest Destiny", does it not?
My only interest in protecting them (not their ever-expanding, Zionist, "we're going to fulfill God's promises without God" regime is more or less "halfway" protecting them, is for their younger people. They pretty much inherited a box of rocks, surrounded by a sea of enemies, and an inland salt sea to the south that's utterly worthless.
For the most part, they can pretty much take care of themselves.
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Success in life is a matter not so much of talent and opportunity as of concentration and perseverance.
– C. W. Wendte
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Mattc
Posts: 185
Incept: 2011-11-07
Texas
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This is insanity. Unless you're willing to go in there and topple the Iranian regime like Iraq, any air assault is going to probably backfire in more ways than one, and they're still going to eventually get the bomb. Then what?
The world has no choice but to trust in MAD. It has kept the peace, and I believe it will continue to do so. We have no need to threaten the Iranians if they use a nuke, they already know what will happen if they nuke Israel. Trust in the human instinct to survive, it's powerful.
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Cashncarry
Posts: 5091
Incept: 2007-07-24
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Quote:What's wrong with that statement? What gives them, "Israel", the right, to commit genocide, as they storm in under their flag flying the Ashteroth Star? (No, it's not the Star of David, any more than the "Christian Cross" is)
One day, a Rothschild just up and decides that that land belongs to another people... And there it is... A discussion regarding what Ahmadinejad meant when he referred to the "annihilation" of the "Zionist Regime" has now transitioned to where you're talking about the Rothschilds, the Ashteroth Star and "Manifest Destiny". If you're going to go that route then by the same token the entity known as the USA should be "annihilated" (in a "peaceful" annihilation of course – if there is such a thing) for doing something similar starting back between 16th and 17th century. It's simply amazing to me how some are so willing to give people like Ahmadinejad and his 12'er Imams the benefit of the doubt without parsing their actions and statements with the same cynicism, skepticism and scrutiny that seems to be reserved only for statements coming from Western sources. I'd think a healthy dose of skepticism could be applied to statements from all sides of the conflict. If any sitting US President called for the "annihilation" of a foreign regime during a public address, you'd know damn well what he meant and you would't be arguing semantics – you'd know it would involve bullets, bombs and bloodshed.
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"There are two places only where socialism will work; in heaven where it is not needed, and in hell where they already have it.”– Winston Churchill
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Vitchilo
Posts: 4627
Incept: 2011-04-27
Online
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Thing is, Iran had good relations with the US in 2001-2002... they even helped catch Talibans and gave them to NATO. Relations were improving. By now, they would be great. But what happened?? Bush's Axis of Evil speech happened. By placing Iran on the ``evil list``, he destroyed that relation.... and as we all know it has been downhill from there... especially with the election of Ahmadinejad... if Bush hadn't done that BS speech, Ahmadinejad wouldn't have been elected... The 2006 Lebanon war probably wouldn't have happened and Netanyahu probably wouldn't have been elected. The middle-east could have been really different. Anyways. http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/....Quote:Iranian tankers are back to buying Syrian crude
Iran has become Syria's main crude oil buyer, helping Bashar Assad's flailing government to circumvent Western sanctions, as Iranian tankers have returned for a third time since April, shipping industry sources said. How the hell are they managing that?? http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/....Quote:U.S. House of Representatives approves new sanctions on Iran
The House of Representatives voted overwhelmingly Wednesday to slap sanctions on Iran's energy, shipping and financial industries, convinced that increasing the economic pressure on Tehran will force it to abandon its suspected nuclear weapons program.
By a vote of 421-6, the House backed the legislation that builds on the current penalties directed at financial institutions that do business with Iran's central bank. The Senate is expected to easily pass the measure and send it to President Barack Obama for his signature. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-de....Quote:Netanyahu, Barak to tell Panetta: Israel reserves the right to defend itself
Panetta arrives in Israel for brief visit that will focus on the American-Israeli dispute over whether to attack Iran's nuclear facilities. http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/as-netany....Quote:As Netanyahu pushes Israel closer to war with Iran, Israelis cannot keep silent
Why aren't ministers and defense officials standing up right now, when it is still possible, and saying: We will not be a party to this megalomaniacal vision, to this messianic-catastrophic worldview? http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-de....Quote:Israeli strike would only delay Iran's nuclear program by two years
Assessment holds that Iran's nuclear program would technically be set back by only a year, but it would likely take Iran another year on top of that to overcome side effects of the strike that would cause additional delays. And if a strike happens, they'll withdraw from the NPT and you can be sure they'll go for nukes then. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/N....Quote:Nasrallah Relocating to Iran?
Report in Arab press: Iran has ordered Hizbullah chief to leave Lebanon if Assad falls. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/N....Quote:Iran and Six World Powers to Hold More Nuclear Talks Iran is not stupid, they are making sure to have talks within the next few weeks as to stop an attack.. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/N....Quote:Iran Could Have Nuclear Weapons Within a Year, Says Expert Is this the ``Let's see how much BS I can pull out of my butt`` contest?
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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
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Yonatan
Posts: 321
Incept: 2010-01-15
Maccabim, Israel
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Hey Landshark, whats the difference between your Rothschild, protocol of the elders of zion infested brain, and a steaming pile of sheep dung? Compare and contrast.
The crap flowing here is tremendous. You can argue amongst yourselves until the cows come home, but we're not going to live with an Iranian nuclear threat hanging over our heads. They have stated what their intentions are (and Landshark has consistently said - they don't mean that) and are methodically building to realize those goals. In the end, it doesn't mean squat what the rest of the world thinks. We'll do what we have to do, again and again and again.
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Genesis
Posts: 130795
Incept: 2007-06-26
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How many different ways do you have to hear "I'm going to blow you up!" before you believe it?
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Landshark
Posts: 11307
Incept: 2008-02-07
The Wild West
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Quote:Hey Landshark, whats the difference between your Rothschild, protocol of the elders of zion infested brain, and a steaming pile of sheep dung? Compare and contrast.
The crap flowing here is tremendous. You can argue amongst yourselves until the cows come home, but we're not going to live with an Iranian nuclear threat hanging over our heads. They have stated what their intentions are (and Landshark has consistently said - they don't mean that) and are methodically building to realize those goals. In the end, it doesn't mean squat what the rest of the world thinks. We'll do what we have to do, again and again and again.
Cognitive dissonance is a funny thing in that it sets some people off into personal attacks. Learn your history. And, for the record, I've never read the Protocols and have no real plan to do so. Learn your history. I never said that Iran is blameless. The point I'm making is that the western MSM are carefully re-shaping the message coming from Iran in a manner that fits the agenda.
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Success in life is a matter not so much of talent and opportunity as of concentration and perseverance.
– C. W. Wendte
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Glasshopper
Posts: 871
Incept: 2009-11-02
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When I say I'm going to kill you - it doesn't mean I'm going to kill you. Perhaps beat you up but not murder.
We say it a lot. Just like when I say I'm going to bury you doesn't also mean I'm going to kill you and then bury your body. It may also mean I am going attend your funeral. As it does in Russian.
It's a threat - technically an assault (use of words that put fear into the person directed of a battery) but without proof of taking steps to kill you the sentence is rendered next to meaningless and to punish as in some states with the death penalty for saying something without taking the neceassry steps is an abhorrent peversion of justice. An assault without the battery like a murder charge without a body or steps taken to commit a murder the threat to kill is just that - a threat and is not punishable by death as murder.
Iran has not said that it is going to blow Israel up. They have said they want to see Israel wiped off the map. That also means that they would like to see the territory now occupied by Isreal returned to pre 1948 atlas of the political map. Iran and Amedinajad have so often been misrepresented by the mass media they make idiots out of us. You only need to listen to his addresses to the UN - with live translation as the members hear it in English to see how easily we are warped by what they want us to hear.
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Wikipedia : In 1951 Ayn Rand moved from Los Angeles to New York City, where she gathered a group of these admirers around her. This group (jokingly designated "The Collective") included future Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan
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Jeffrey_thomason
Posts: 7083
Incept: 2009-03-11
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The only non-signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty in the region? Israel.
It would be quite an irony if Israel, as a non-signatory to the NPT, attacks Iran, who is a signatory to the NTP, to prevent them from maybe developing nuclear weapons.
You certainly can't hold Israel blameless, but you can't help but understand their paranoia either. They have been constantly attacked since the moment the country came into existence by states that would see the entire country cease to exist as an independent nation. They're certainly willing to have neighboring Arab states. I think if Israel would let the UN administer Jerusalem as a corpus separatum as the original 1947 Partition Plan proposed, it would go a long way. However, I think the current leadership still remembers the blood that they paid for capturing the Old City too vividly...
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"Until we look beyond the throne where the power structure lies, we'll fight amongst ourselves as freedom dies. The only hope for human kind lies in solidarity. The strength in our numbers sets us free."
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