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User Info Iran in forum [GeoPoliticsNews] Item is Pinned
Bjonsson
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Look, I'm not Middle Eastern by ethnicity, nor am I any sort of fan of theirs, but I'm an adherent to the Ron Paul attitude towards the Middle East, and I am a believer in the concept that if you want to have good policy, you need to approach it with an understanding of all viewpoints involved.

That disclaimer made, let's think about why these Middle Easterners are so*****ed off at us...

inline

What would we do if someone did something like this to our land? We already know that there has been a wave of immigration into the US from Latin America. Now, let's say that in addition to building their settlements and communities here, the Mexican immigrants declared that the homes and land they are occupying here is no longer part of the US, but is now sovereign Mexican land.... because this land was "historically theirs" if you go back a few centuries. Then, they start setting up checkpoints, gates, walls that begin to fence in and hamper free movement of the non-Mexicans who live in or try to transit through their territory. How would non-Mexican Americans react?

Before the end of WW2, the Jewish and Islamic Palestinians lived side by side in relative peace. The trouble started after WW2, with an influx of ethnic European Jews who were fixated on establishing a "Jewish state". And they now have put the US taxpayer on the hook for bankrolling this little project of theirs.

Let's go back a bit further... during WW1, we recruited the natives of the Levant to rebel against their Ottoman masters and fight onside with us, in exchange for a guarantee that we would give them sovereignty upon the cessation of the war. Promise broken, after WW1 we carved up the map into European "mandates" and ruled the region as colonies. We repeatedly interfered in their democracies, tossing out elected leaders in favor of hand picked strongmen. In other nations we put patsies in power who were specifically amenable to our oil interests, etc. How many decades can policies like this go on before the natives start getting*****ed off? While I am certainly no fan of Islam, I can certainly see how the constant humiliation of these folks over the course of centuries could cause some of the problems we are facing today.

I don't understand why the US needs to be involved here. Why are we giving ANY of these nations the huge amounts of foreign aid that we are currently giving them? Outside of, maybe, Saudi Arabia and Iraq who have large petroleum deposits, is there any logical upside for us being involved in any of the other countries in this region? Is it worth it for us?
Inthedim
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Why start the comparison in 1946?
Gollum
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No there isn't we're only there because power of the pro Israel coalition in US politics. If logic were to prevail we'd seek good relations with all nations in the area while staying out of their disputes and our only military interest would be keeping the waterways open.
Jeffrey_thomason
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Report is from Haaretz, but behind a registration-wall:

http://warsclerotic.wordpress.com/2012/0....

Quote:


Speaking in a closed meeting, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu stated on Thursday that he is not troubled by the possibility that an investigative committee could be formed after a theoretical Israeli strike on Iran.

...

Two officials who attended the meeting, who asked to remain nameless, said that the majority of those present left the meeting feeling that Netanyahu remains steadfast in his determination not to rely on the United States, and can be expected to order the IDF to attack Iran in the coming months.

Others present at the meeting however, pointed out that Netanyahu’s comments seemed to be part of the “psychological warfare” campaign that Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak are conducting, in order to pressure the U.S. into attacking Iran itself.

At one point during the meeting, a participant asked Netanyahu what he thinks could possibly happen the day after an Israeli strike on Iran. According to one official present at the meeting, the question angered Netanyahu. “If an investigative committee is formed, I’ll go and say that I, I am responsible,” said Netanyahu, as he pounded the table, and his chest, with his fist.

The fuming Netanyahu didn’t stop there. “I’ve had enough of this atmosphere,” he said. “It’s also felt in other discussions [on Iran], people keep showing me presentations prepared as if for an investigative committee. I’ve told them to stop with these presentations, stop speaking on protocol, and get to the point,” said Netanyahu.

Netanyahu made it clear to those present that he prefers that the U.S. “do the work,” though he admits that the U.S. is not prepared to pursue a military option at this point.

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When they turn the pages of history, when these days have passed long ago. Will they read of us with sadness for the seeds that we let grow?
Jeffrey_thomason
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http://www.momentng.com/en/news/4491/sau....

Quote:

SAUDI Arabia has decided to report Iran to the United Nations Security Council, a move that could lead to new sanctions, but Tehran dismissed allegations it plotted to kill a top Saudi envoy as a ploy to isolate it.

‘Saudi Arabia's permanent mission to the United Nations, formally requested the United Nations Secretary-General to notify the Security Council of the heinous conspiracy,’ the Asharq al-Awsat newspaper reported, citing a statement from the kingdom's U.N. mission.

The United States on Tuesday said it had uncovered a plot by two men with links to Iran's security forces to assassinate the Saudi ambassador to the United States, Adel al-Jubeir, by
planting a bomb in a Washington restaurant.


ETA: Looks like this may be an old story, not sure why it was reposted....

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When they turn the pages of history, when these days have passed long ago. Will they read of us with sadness for the seeds that we let grow?

Vitchilo
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Possible dates for Israeli attack on Iran...

August 17, September 16 and October 15... 2-3 days around each of these dates... when there will be complete darkness. Also depends on the weather.

IMO Israel cannot pull off a ``surprise`` attack on Iran. Iran isn't stupid. They probably have their own people all across Jordan, Turkey, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iraq watching the skies...

But it doesn't matter anyways... even if Iran knew the date they still wouldn't be able to defend against it, Iran is a third world country, Israel and NATO are not.

Also, Israel should be REALLY CAREFUL... sending the bulk of their airforce to Iran thousands of kilometers away... who knows how many will return... and then it will take a few days for them to be all operational again... so during that 24-36hres timeframe after an attack on Iran, Israel could be VERY vulnerable... if, let's say, Egypt, were to attack Israel... but then Israel would be forced to use WMDs... to save itself... just a thought.

IMO Israel will strike first but then Americans forces in the area will complete the job... aka taking out the Iranian missiles, airforce and navy.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
Cashncarry
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Quote:
It's a threat - technically an assault (use of words that put fear into the person directed of a battery) but without proof of taking steps to kill you the sentence is rendered next to meaningless and to punish as in some states with the death penalty for saying something without taking the neceassry steps is an abhorrent peversion of justice. An assault without the battery like a murder charge without a body or steps taken to commit a murder the threat to kill is just that - a threat and is not punishable by death as murder.

True. But if I was saying I would like to see you annihilated or wiped off the map while at the same time I was loading bullets into my clips as well as equipping your next door neighbor and enemies with weapons, it might somehow lead you to the conclusion that I MEAN IT in a non-rhetorical way. But go ahead, bend over backwards as far as you can to give Ahmadinejad and his 12'er Mullahs every the benefit of the doubt. They're just talking smack.

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"There are two places only where socialism will work; in heaven where it is not needed, and in hell where they already have it.”– Winston Churchill
Vitchilo
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http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/N....
Quote:
Report: America’s Plan for Attack on Iran

United States Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta was in Israel this week to talk with Israeli leaders about Iran’s nuclear program. Now the Israeli daily Yediot Aharonot is reporting that Panetta shared America’s contingency plan in case talks with Iran fail to halt its nuclear program.

The plan would reportedly be put into effect only in one and a half years. Israeli leaders have indicated that Israel may pursue a military strike much sooner – possibly in the next three months.

The plan published Friday is a two-stage operation, in which warplanes launched from the Strait of Hormuz strike first. The second stage includes the use of bunker-buster missiles.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
Jeffrey_thomason
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http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-de....

Quote:

What had been whispered up to a week or two ago is now publicly audible. The possibility of Israel attacking nuclear facilities in Iran in coming months, before the November presidential elections in the U.S., is a topic of detailed public debate. In the past 72 hours, three former top guns of Israeli intelligence discussed the subject with unnerving candor. Two of them expressed opposition to a unilateral Israeli attack under present circumstances.

...


Do these former security chiefs know something which remains opaque to the public? Former IDF intelligence officers continue to have access to security system briefings, even though they are not brought into the actual planning process of a secret military operation. No less importantly, they know how to analyze disclosed, public data − and developments of the past weeks teaches them that the likelihood of an Israeli decision in favor of an attack is now higher than it has been previously.

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When they turn the pages of history, when these days have passed long ago. Will they read of us with sadness for the seeds that we let grow?
Dogfarm
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i think Israel has missed the window or is about to miss it. there is even some question as to if US isn't trying to negotiate further with Iran and is following the Robert Baer school of thought:

Robert Baer Argues the U.S. Needs Iran as Mideast Ally

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgifzb_....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Baer

but who the hell really knows.

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“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour” (1 Peter 5:8)
Yonatan
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Bjonsson wrote..
Before the end of WW2, the Jewish and Islamic Palestinians lived side by side in relative peace.

Yeah, sure, whatever you say. How appropriate that today in Jerusalem we are having a memorial for 23 Jews that were slaughtered in 1929 by their arab neighbors. If that's relative peace, you can keep it.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/N....

Reason: Added date
Vitchilo
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Well IMO all the big wigs in Israel talking about an Israeli strike means that they thought/think that Bibi had it planned for very soon... IMO he had in mind the next full moon, August 17...

Maybe he's still going to do it then...

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East....
Quote:
Sacrificing Iran's queen

There is speculation in Tehran that the wily and pragmatic former president Akbar Hashem Rafsanjani will shortly - at the Eid-ul-Fitr celebration of the end of Ramadan later this month - be mandated by the Supreme Leader to negotiate a solution to Iran's nuclear problems.

Rafsanjani's star has been rising as rapidly as President Ahmadinejad's is descending. So on the one hand, we have seen Rafsanjani being restored to a more influential role as head of Iran's Expediency Council, which is one of three key Iranian political institutions. On the other hand, we see death sentences for a multi-billion dollar banking fraud being handed out to individuals associated with factions in the presidential camp.

If Rafsanjani - or anyone else - is indeed to be given the authority to make major concessions to address the nuclear demands made by the P5+1 - the United Nations Security Council permanent five members plus Germany - then the result could be extremely interesting.


http://www.rt.com/news/israel-missile-de....
Quote:
Israel upgrades missile shield over Iran, Syria fears


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,....
Quote:
Rumsfeld: Israel needn't notify US about strike

War criminals and traitors like Rumsfeld should be hanging high, not talking to the press...

http://www.examiner.com/article/iran-upg....
Quote:
Iran upgrades its MiG 29 fighter jets with modern electronics


http://www.tehrantimes.com/politics/1002....
Quote:
During a meeting on Sunday, the MPs sitting on the Majlis National Security and Foreign Policy Committee and the commanders of the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps Naval Force and the Iranian Navy will discuss the latest developments in regard to the Persian Gulf and the Strait of Hormuz.

Yeah I suggest you don't do something stupid...

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,....
Quote:
ISIS: Iran completed clean-up of nuclear evidence at military site


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,....
Quote:
PM: Israel won't be spared even if US attacks Iran

In closed talks, Netanyahu says missiles will be fired at Israel even if US strikes Iran but admits likelihood of US strike is small


http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Irans_....
Quote:
Iran's new space center boosts rocket plan

Iran is reported to be putting the finishing touches on a secret new space center to launch satellites into orbit, a step Western analysts say will move the Islamic Republic closer to developing intercontinental ballistic missiles.

Be afraid... of 1960 technology!

http://www.naharnet.com/stories/en/49010....
Quote:
Al-Arabiya Video: Syria Rebels Say Hostages Iranian Guards


Quote:
Gulf Arab countries to discuss unity in September (Reuters)

Another move against Iran.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
Vitchilo
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Bibi is really thinking about it.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-s....
Quote:

Netanyahu said to have told closed meeting: Khamenei is not a rational leader

PM also quoted as saying Iran ‘means it when it talks of destroying Israel,’ and ‘there’s no defense against a nuclear hit’

Sure there is. It's called MAD.

Quote:
Iranian Ayatollah Ali Khamenei “is not a rational leader, just like the leader of North Korea. They are unpredictable,” the prime minister was quoted as saying.

Except the leader of NKorea has never crossed the line in 59 years. So yeah... bad example.

Quote:
The prime minister apparently tried to calm any concerns that his policy in Iran is anything but grounded in reality. “I am not messianic,” he reportedly said — a reference to the accusation leveled by former Shin Bet chief Yuval Diskin that Netanyahu and Barak are “messianistic” in their policy formulations.

Sure you are. You are believing your own BS. You're as unpredictable as Khamenei.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
Avianphlu
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Ulster NY
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give me a break YonaTIN

mouthpiece...we have had enough
Yonatan
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Who gives a **** what you have had enough of Ulterirish. If you don't like it, don't read it.

Besides that, are you challenging the veracity of what I wrote? Do you believe that the arab pogroms of 1929 didn't happen? Go ahead and show your true colors here for all to see.
Drench
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Wrongway
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@Yonatan

Deir Yassin massacre.....

Seems both sides may have blood on thier hands
Avianphlu
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Ulster NY
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indeed
Yonatan
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Yes, Deir Yassin, what a wholly appropriate comparison. One featured 2 fighting forces, with the arabs using their tried and true method of fighting from within a civilian population to cause casualties that they could later use to "rally the troops". The other has neighbors going house to house smashing skulls of anything moving and Jewish. Sounds about right to me.
Wrongway
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Perhaps a bit of revisionist thinking?
Albert Einstein would think so........

TO THE EDITORS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES:

Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the �Freedom Party� (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.

The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin�s political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.

Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin�s behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement.

The public avowals of Begin�s party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.

Attack on Arab Village

A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants � 240 men, women, and children � and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin.

The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.

Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model.

During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.

The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no settlements, and only detracted from the Jewish defense activity. Their much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to bringing in Fascist compatriots.

Discrepancies Seen

The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a �Leader State� is the goal.

In the light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known in this country. It is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has refused to campaign against Begin�s efforts, or even to expose to its own constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin.

The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.

(signed)

Isidore Abramowitz, Hannah Arendt, Abraham Brick, Rabbi Jessurun Cardozo, Albert Einstein, Herman Eisen, M.D., Hayim Fineman, M. Gallen, M.D., H.H. Harris, Zelig S. Harris, Sidney Hook, Fred Karush, Bruria Kaufman, Irma L. Lindheim, Nachman Maisel, Symour Melman, Myer D. Mendelson, M.D., Harry M. Orlinsky, Samuel Pitlick, Fritz Rohrlich, Louis P. Rocker, Ruth Sager, Itzhak Sankowsky, I.J. Schoenberg, Samuel Shuman, M. Znger, Irma Wolpe, Stefan Wolpe

New York, Dec. 2, 1948


And if we ignore Deir Yassin, there is still:
Yahida 1947
Khisas 1947
Qazaza 1947
Al-Sheikh 1948
Naser Al-Din 1948

I could go on..
The Stern Gang and Irgun kept quite busy.
Avianphlu
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it was a cheap and easy way to appropriate land if you ask me sarc off. I'm done...point made.

Reason: .
Eo
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Quote:
Netanyahu said to have told closed meeting: Khamenei I am not a rational leader


Fixed for this f*cker

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"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Albert Einstein
Vitchilo
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More casus belli... ahead of the strike on Iran... me thinks it'll happen within a month.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-de....
Quote:
New intelligence reveals Iran closer to attaining nuclear weapon than previously thought

A Western diplomat who asked not to be named because he was not authorized to discuss intelligence information said the United States, Britain, France, Germany and Israel agree on that assessment.

Right...

Quote:
Last month Britain's Daily Telegraph reported that the Iranian Revolutionary Guards has established a new team of 60 nuclear scientists to develop Iran's military nuclear program at the Lavizan base near Tehran. In 2006, IAEA inspectors visited that base, which belongs to the Guards' missile development agency.

The Daily Telegraph based its report on information from the Iranian opposition group Mujahideen al-Khalq. Members of the group told the paper that the work of the Iranian scientists in the "weapons group" is at an advanced facility involved warheads and detonators.

So the source are anti-Iran jihadists... reminds me of all those anti-Saddam source who told everybody that Iraq had WMDs...

Quote:
The Ugandan option

Netanyahu told U.S. Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney that an Israeli or American military attack on Iran's nuclear facilities was likely to help topple the ayatollah regime, just as the 1976 Entebbe raid led to the defeat of Ugandan dictator Idi Amin, according to a senior Israeli official.

Bibi believes his own BS... did Iranians revolt when they fought Iraq?? Nope.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
Jeffrey_thomason
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http://www.jpost.com/IranianThreat/News/....

Quote:

If Iran gets a nuclear bomb it may actually use it, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said Monday, rejecting the notion that Tehran would act responsibly if it became a member of the world’s nuclear “club.”

Netanyahu, in a meeting with visiting Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr, spelled out five things that would likely happen, were Iran allowed to go nuclear: There will be nuclear proliferation in the Middle East as various other actors will then want to have a bomb; Iran will have a firmer hand on the “choke point of the world’s oil supply,” namely the Strait of Hormuz; there will be a magnification of global terrorism because the terrorists under Iran’s sway will believe that they have immunity; and Israel’s cities will be rocketed even more because those firing the rockets will feel that they enjoy a nuclear umbrella.

That the Iranians might actually use the bomb is a reality that cannot be denied, Netanyahu said.

“This is a regime that has broken every rule in the book,” he added. “They very likely could use weapons of mass death.”

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When they turn the pages of history, when these days have passed long ago. Will they read of us with sadness for the seeds that we let grow?
Landshark
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Quote:
New intelligence reveals Iran closer to attaining nuclear weapon than previously thought


As if by magic!

Quote:
If Iran gets a nuclear bomb it may actually use it, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said Monday


Say it ain't so!

What next?




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Success in life is a matter not so much of talent and opportunity as of concentration and perseverance.

– C. W. Wendte
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