Yeh Pika, I think the cuts have to be even handed. It is the only way to get it done. Saving one group at the expense of another clearly is NOT right. I would start with a 50% reduction in all spending and then work from there. I will survive somehow, but the country won't if we do not make some sacrifices. No argument from me Steph. And I do agree that our service people do take it up the rear, and have for a long time. Just look at how we treated our Vietnam vets for crying out loud. Abusing them (physically and verbally) when they came home. Deplorable conditions at the VAs for injured vets, discrimination, etc.

The general population has no ****ing idea what these recent foreign adventures with their 'modernday warfare' have done to our service members. NO ****ING IDEA! These kids are ****ed up for life - and I don't mean just physically - and our ****ing government KNOWS this, yet provides absolutely ZERO help.

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I don't think that healthcare for those who have been injured in the line of duty

To be fair, this is FAR from the case for the majority of vets. I have a relative is abled bodied and has collected a pension since the age of 39 and refuses to work, and contribute, because he cannot be bothered. He also collects medical. Why should he be allowed to stay home and collect while everyone else has to contribute to support him? He can at least contribute by working in the Fed Gov (which loves vets) and continue to be productive.

Fraud - Anecdotal evidence at best. The vast majority of those who have served in wars and are disabled or receive benefits are truly deserving. There will ALWAYS be those that screw the pooch. You can't stop that. It's not possible unless you're going to agree that no one ever gets any compensation for service. However, holding up the few that **** the pooch as some sort of example of widespread exploitation of the system, is disingenuous. For every story like yours, I can give you TEN where the person receives little to nothing and his/her life is ****ed up forever and in no small way.

And as I said - MOST - suffer in silence and say nothing because it is not the military way to EVER speak of the hardship one endures.

FACT: My kid is now stationed at Ft. Campbell. It's about 7-8 hours from here (home). He comes home once a month. He has a couple of health problems and he NEVER goes to medical on base. EVER. Why? Because it just isn't done unless you're missing a limb - and if you've lost a limb, you better be ****ing bleeding out.

So, you know what I do? I pay CASH to get him in to see his old doctors here. He can't be on my insurance anymore and he cannot use Tri-Care benefits here at home unless he goes to the VA and it gets put on his record. So, I take him on the sly and pay cash. Any idea how many wives/husbands/parents do this and eat the costs themselves?! Hint: It is not a small number. Loved ones of serving military subsidize a substantial amount of the cost associated with our soldiers/Marines/airmen/sailors.

There has to be a way to differentiating Steph. I am NOT being disingenuous, because above I said:

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And I do agree that our service people do take it up the rear, and have for a long time. Just look at how we treated our Vietnam vets for crying out loud. Abusing them (physically and verbally) when they came home. Deplorable conditions at the VAs for injured vets, discrimination, etc.

As Gen pointed out, there is NO MONEY for all of it. And everybody is going to see their ox get gored, and as a poster mentioned above, every group can make a credible case (depending on your vantage point), that they deserve the money. All will be disappointed. THAT is my argument. I have no problem taking care of our disabled/maimed/injured vets. NONE WHATSOEVER! But the breadth of programs we have now do have large elements of waste and inequity. At the end of the day there will be cuts, and it seems the chief bottle washer agrees with this. Disingenuous or not.

Fraud - read my post above. MANY serving military are forced to NOT use their benefits.

I ALSO pointed out that there's no money for all of it - but when our kids sign up for the military, that's not what they're told. They're TOLD their healthcare will be taken care of and if they are going to put their lives in danger and on the line, then they ought to be told up front that whatever happens to them will be their own responsibility. Perhaps FULL DISCLOSURE is needed before they start cutting the things that these kids are promised when they sign up to PUT THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE OR WORSE, TO LIVE THE REST OF THEIR LIVES DISABLED.

These people give a TRUE SERVICE to our country. We're not talking paper pushing in the case of our combat veterans. Cutting combat veterans' healthcare before 'unionized' government workers is unethical and immoral. Period.

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I ALSO pointed out that there's no money for all of it - but when our kids sign up for the military, that's not what they're told. They're TOLD their healthcare will be taken care of and if they are going to put their lives in danger and on the line, then they ought to be told up front that whatever happens to them will be their own responsibility. Perhaps FULL DISCLOSURE is needed before they start cutting the things that these kids are promised when they sign up to PUT THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE OR WORSE, TO LIVE THE REST OF THEIR LIVES DISABLED.

And a credible argument could be made that similar promises were made to those on Medicare. After all they "paid into it". Doesn't change the math. It sucks, and I feel betrayed. You are not alone on that.

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These people give a TRUE SERVICE to our country. We're not talking paper pushing in the case of our combat veterans. Cutting combat veterans' healthcare before 'unionized' government workers is unethical and immoral. Period.

Check your PM.

Uh, no one 'paid into' Medicare....and even those who THINK they 'paid into' Social Security are deluding themselves. Strawman argument.

OTOH, what's the dollar amount for 'paying in' by putting your life on the line as a combat infantry soldier? What's a life worth? That's what these guys pledge to give.

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Uh, no one 'paid into' Medicare....and even those who THINK they 'paid into' Social Security are deluding themselves.

That is not what many of those seniors are going to argue. I understand the legalities of your argument. But it won't matter to them. I have had THAT conversation too, and it wasn't pretty.

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OTOH, what's the dollar amount for 'paying in' to put your life on the line as a combat infantry soldier?

Pretty ****ing high IMO. And when injured, I think that we should, nay, we have AN OBLIGATION to look after them. Steph, I am fundamentally not disagreeing with you. I am saying we need to cut the waste from the system, because we can, and force the able-bodied to continue to contribute for the 30-40 years remaining in their lives, beyond the 20 years put into the system. I also think that we have an obligation to provide for our injured vets AND educate our vets to be able to enter into productive society (because many military MOSs do not translate into the civilian sector), if and when, they choose to do so. Exactly what is wrong with this?

Nothing is wrong with that and the vast majority of those leaving the service are productive members of society and thankfully, many private businesses are very happy to hire a veteran, even if they need to train them for something in which they have little to no experience. (This is usually a good move too because work ethic is a given, especially with a combat veteran.) However, with the lack of jobs our young veterans are having a hell of a time finding work at all...and no small number of them, while physically sound, have some serious psychological issues. 'Modernday warfare' and the 'rules of engagement' have ****ed with their heads on a scale I cannot begin to express.

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while physically sound, have some serious psychological issues.

In my opinion that does not constitute able-bodied and we should indeed look after them.

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However, with the lack of jobs our young veterans are having a hell of a time finding work at all.

At the risk of sounding big government, I actually would want to see an expansion of the GI Bill.

My wife was accepted to Annapolis. Visited the place a number of times (since I live in the area). Must admit that my secret preference is for a child of mine to go there and study some kind of engineering, get a good education, and then put in some service. Just as an aside.

Steph,
Your son is enlisted. I know that anytime I had a soldier under my command was sick or ailing in any way, they went to sick-call. Not sure why you are using civilian doctors.

Tri-Care is a joke. My gf loses more money seeing a Tri-care patient than a Medicaid patient. The reimbursements are even lower. Really stinks when you live right next to an Army base.

All- I sincerely apologize for my rant last night. I was not threating to shoot the place up. I am aware that everyone's ox will be gored and that there is no more money. I and my family have prepared as best we can. I was only stating that this admin appears to really have a hard-on for vets, since I have been listed by DHS as a potential terrosit, and several of my friends actually have their pictures listed by DHS/FBI as groups/persons to "watch", yet I hold a very high security clearance. (that was the white, male, vet rant). Reckon I'm going to have to quit reading this forum after a couple of beers because it spikes my blood-pressure too much!I agree with Otis, repeal Davis-Bacon and remove Kennedy's executive order authorizing unionizing gov workers and there can be a LOT of fat that can be cut. Sorry, gotta get back to work.
Bandit, I did it as enlisted also. It is due to the fact that you are "encouraged" to never show weakness or sickness. If you do, your evaluations are suddenly not as good and promotion opportunities suddenly start evaporating. Right or wrong, just the way it is.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/b....

Building a massive new VA hosptial in "medical city" (Lake Nona) in Orlando.

"half-billion dollar project" according to US Rep. John Mica.

Opening delayed until 2013.

Pika-steph wrote..

The vast majority of those who have served in wars and are disabled or receive benefits are truly deserving.

I would guess that the number of people collecting disability who saw combat are minority compared to those who did not. You've still got a lot of people in the system who left the military in the 80s and 90s and even the last ten years who never once saw combat.

Bandit wrote..

Steph,
Your son is enlisted. I know that anytime I had a soldier under my command was sick or ailing in any way, they went to sick-call. Not sure why you are using civilian doctors.

Because he'll be shredded. 'SUCK IT UP SOLDIER! WHAT ARE YOU A ****ING PUSSY?!' It's like they're still in BCT - and this is not just limited to the base my son is at. It is widespread. It's worth mentioning that my son is a Team Leader and in the next couple of weeks will be promoted to E5 (Sgt). He has a number of guys under his command now himself. While he'd personally be inclined to let guys go to sick-call if needed, he probably won't because the command over him will be watching. Basically, you have to be missing a limb AND bleeding out.

Just since November, Ryan has gone 3 weeks with untreated strep throat (wonder how many others he passed that onto); went nearly 2 months with what turned out to be a serious case of bronchitis (needed steriods and heavy-duty antibiotics to get rid of that one); and went for 2 months with a hairline fracture in a bone in his foot. All went untreated despite him telling his NCOs. Their response was what I quoted above....even on the day he literally could not walk because his foot was swollen so much he couldn't get his boot on. Ryan and all of his Army buddies concur: they got WAY better care when they were in Afghanistan.

G-d bless our long-time doctors here who often refuse to charge me for treating Ryan or conveniently forget to send me a bill.

Abn0rmal - MOST US Army soldiers and Marines enlisted from 1998 through last year HAVE seen time in a war zone. That's a fact. This obviously does not apply to the other branches of service.

You do realize you can die from untreated strep throat? I let it go once during a busy time of year, apparently it turns systemic and can destroy your heart.

No one can fault you for getting strep throat treated.

As a former army brat I have experienced military health care (brace yourself because it's the best .gov can produce).

I'd rather go to a veterinarian.

The .Mil is pretty good at patching up holes and such. That's their specialty, after all......

When Ryan is off base, can't he hit up the nearest VA clinic? skip the on base stuff if they are that damn crazy.

SD -

With some exceptions, appointments/treatment at VA facilities used to take literally weeks and months of lead-time to obtain. (I would be surprised if that's been improved very much nowadays.)

Loma Linda has walk in during the week. Weekends probably have to go to the ER but they do have an ER. Same with Long Beach.

SD -

That is a surprise to me. It's good to hear that they've actually improved the responsiveness of the system over what it used to be years ago.

Yeah, It may not be that way at all of them but I have friend working at LL and Long Beach. Unless there is stuff they are not seeing, the concern and care given to our vets is great at those two places.

I'd figure a broken bone in a foot would be ER worthy as would strep untreated. Might be a long wait if others are sicker, they go first in an ER but at least here, Pika's son would be seen.

I dunno how West LA is nor La Jolla as I don't know anyone working at either right now. Probably can find info on their web sites tho.

Well the $$ has to be cut from somewhere.

http://tickerforum.org/akcs-www?post=202....

Better it be cut from the .mil then those wonderful federal bureaucrats who "are lawyers, doctors, PhD students, economists, writers, electricians, construction workers, security officers and technology specialists."

who have done nothing but sacrifice for this country and whom we all owe a debt of gratitude because the bureaucracy is "a primary reason why the United States remains as great as it is."

**** the .mil. Fund the bureaucracy !