It's only a problem for the govt, which is not the problem of everyone. Everyone on the victim side of the thieving is quite happy to see the govt suffer, even fail.

And life will go on, possibly better for many. Why believe the govt telling you its own death is going to be a sad day for you?

Baj wrote...

Quote:

25% unemployment would be a disaster, why are people not starwing?

This goes to the crux of the matter, Baj and everyone else. One of the local talk-radio guys here (who I usually can't stand, but I heard this from him) has a constant theme in relation to govt and welfare -


"Why is America the ONLY country in the world with fat POOR people?"


That's a good question. And no, don't JUST blame it on ****ty diet. We ALLOW them to be fat poor people; ****, we PAY THEM to be fat poor people.

The coming crisis should be called the "Great Slimming", because a lot of fat mother ****ers are going to be shedding the pounds. Funny how starvation does that **** to you.

Quote:

a lot of fat mother ****ers are going to be shedding the pounds. Funny how starvation does that **** to you.

And a lot of thin mother****ers will be dead in a month or two. It's not like more thin people are prepared for the privation that is coming.

I can't same I'm prepared Mo; I don't know if ANY of us truly are... Except maybe TruthSeeker and his bunch.

I just hope some of the things I've learned, purchased and have will help my family through it.

And I bet Mrs Frat won't bitch as much when the "garden" becomes almost all of our yard. ;-)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/0....

Quote:

MADRID, June 5 (Reuters) - Spain said on Tuesday that credit markets were closing to the euro zone's fourth biggest economy as finance chiefs of the Group of Seven major economies were to hold emergency talks on the currency bloc's worsening debt crisis.

Treasury Minister Cristobal Montoro sent out the dramatic distress signal in a radio interview about the impact of his country's banking crisis on government borrowing, saying that at current rates, financial markets were effectively shut to Spain.

"The risk premium says Spain doesn't have the market door open," Montoro said on Onda Cero radio. "The risk premium says that as a state we have a problem in accessing markets, when we need to refinance our debt."

Quote:

Montoro said Spanish banks should be recapitalised through European mechanisms, departing from the previous government line that Spain could raise the money on its own

Yeah, anybody that thinks this is what Merkel "agreed" to this better re-read her statements

Funny. It wasn't that long ago that a 6% rate on a 10 year would be perfectly normal. Now it's "locked out of the credit markets." This world has gone crazy.

Antone wrote..

. It wasn't that long ago that a 6% rate on a 10 year would be perfectly normal. Now it's "locked out of the credit markets."

6% was doable when debts were much smaller. Debts are now so large that 6% means certain death and they know it.

What happens when, not if, we reach the point where > 0 means certain death?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/0....

Examine the wording..."A deal is in the works..." NOT "A deal has been struck and here it is..."

Back and forth...back and forth.

Well Ricky, you can't pump THAT kind of news, because there wouldn't BE anything behind it.

Vague is the way to be - the big guys have to sell today so they pull out before the BIG **** goes down. I keep laughing and shaking my head every time I hit the button to check stocks. This ****ing casinI is so rigged its pathetic.

Just bounced the moving average for a few days....nothing more. Lower lows next week.

Fitch Ratings downgrades Spain to BBB, with a negative outlook:

http://www.fitchratings.com/web/en/dynam....

Essen, Merkel! :)

and Spanish futures don't even move

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/0....

Partial quote from Fitch Statement:

Quote:

FISCAL COSTS OF BANK RESTRUCTURING

Fitch initiated a review in May of its previous assessment that the recapitalisation of Spanish banks would incur a fiscal cost of around EUR30bn (3% of GDP). On 25 May, it was announced that Bankia/BFA faces a EUR19bn capital shortfall. Fitch now expects the fiscal cost of bank restructuring and recapitalisation to be in the range of EUR50bn to EUR60bn and in a negative stress scenario, the cost could rise to EUR90bn- EUR100bn. A detailed description of Fitch's analysis of the potential capital requirements of the Spanish banking system is set out in an accompanying comment, "Fitch: New Base Case Indicates Spanish Banks Need EUR50bn to EUR60bn Capital".

Spanish futures have actually gone higher ...

...and the Euro goes positive. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Rumored conferrence call to be held on Saturday to discuss a Spain bailout. In the meantime here's what Germany has to say

https://mninews.deutsche-boerse.com/cont....

Quote:

The German government on Friday reaffirmed that the European bailout funds were ready to support Spain, if Madrid applies for aid and accepts the conditions tied to it.

"The decision is up to Spain. If it makes it, then the European instruments for it are ready," government spokesman Steffen Seibert said at a regular press conference here. "Then everything will run under the usual procedure: a state makes a request, it will be liable and it accepts the conditions tied to it."

So Spain wants an unembarrassing non-request for no strings attached money, Germany says pound it.

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2012/06/....

From a Nomura Note via FT Alphaville:

Quote:

If all three rating agencies move Spain to BBB+ or below then under the ECB’s current framework it moves into the Step 3 collateral bucket, which requires an additional 5% haircut across maturities.

Surely the ECB took into consideration its own balance sheet when deliberating over additional 3-year LTRO operations. Draghi (understandably) did not allude to such considerations in the press conference, but rather explained that it was their macro baseline scenario that determined the applicability of such operations, and thus put them on hold, at least for the moment.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/friday-dum....

First we got Spain miraculously announcing late at night local time, but certainly after close of market US time, that the bailout so many algorithms had taken for granted in ramping stocks into the close may not be coming, because, picture this, Germany may have conditions when bailing the broke country's banks out, and Spain is just not cool with that, and now, after the close of FX and futures trading, we get Moody's giving us the warning the after Egan-Jones, S&P, and Fitch, it is now its turn to cut the Spanish A3 rating."As Spain moves closer to the need for direct external support from its European partners, the increased risk to the country's creditors may prompt further rating actions. The official estimates of recapitalising Spain's banking system have risen significantly and the country's indirect reliance on European Central Bank (ECB) funding via its banks has been growing. Moody's is assessing the implications of these increased pressures and will take any rating actions necessary to reflect the risk to Spanish government creditors. Moody's rating on Spain is currently A3 with a negative outlook." ...

The Spaniards never had any pride or balls to face the Germans. It wasn't a surprise to me they capitulated. Pretty soon they'll be an incorporated territory of the Germans for tourism purposes.

Anyone know how Italy and Portugal are doing?

Euro Zone Leaders Agree to Lend Spain Up to $125 Billion

Quote:

Euro zone finance ministers agreed on Saturday to lend Spain up to 100 billion euros ($125 billion) to shore up its teetering banks and Madrid said it would specify precisely how much it needs once independent audits report in just over a week.

After a 2 1/2 hour conference call of the 17 European finance ministers, which several sources described as heated, the Eurogroup and Madrid said the amount of the bailout would be sufficiently large to banish any doubts.

"The loan amount must cover estimated capital requirements with an additional safety margin, estimated as summing up to 100 billion euros in total," a Eurogroup statement said.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47747620

Related ticker

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=2....

No surprise... Finland wants collateral

Quote:

Finland will demand collateral for its share of emergency loans to shore up the Spanish banking system should the money come from the euro-region’s temporary bailout fund, Finance Minister Jutta Urpilainen said.

“It remains undecided whether the bailout will be granted via the temporary facility, in which case Finland will require collateral,” Urpilainen told reporters in Kokkola, Finland, yesterday. The other alternative is to grant the loan through the European Stability Mechanism, the “permanent crisis mechanism, which will provide better security for taxpayers” and won’t result in demands for extra guarantees, Urpilainen said.

Google translate
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl....

Quote:

No free lunch: European aid (through the bailout fund temporary or permanent) are actually loans to recapitalize the financial system , which the Treasury must return religiously to tocateja. Again, the State comes to the rescue of the bank. Of course, it is soft loans, in much better shape than the market: around 3%, according to sources familiar with the negotiations between Spain and its European partners. Faced with this 3%, Treasury currently pays interest of 6% over the 10-year debt. In return for subsidized rates, Spain cede sovereignty over its financial system, but also lose tax sovereignty, contrary to what the Government said yesterday.

Sounds like Greece MkII to me...

Why Spain's regions owe so much money

Quote:

Many regions in the country owe billions of euros, partly because some local politicians built anything from airports to swimming pools to cultural projects during the boom times.

Some of those projects now lie unfinished, empty or inactive. Others were completed as planned.

But most of them have one thing in common: they have left big holes in local public finances.

Quote:

Work on a new airport, costing 150m euros in the autonomous community of Valencia in the east of Spain, finished in March last year.

But not a single plane has landed on its runway.

In the city of Ciudad Real, a short train journey south of Madrid, another expensive airport lies empty.

"An airport in Ciudad Real, for what?" says Celestino Suero from CE Consulting, a nationwide Spanish consultancy firm. "No-one uses it."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18277....

From earlier this morning:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-r....

Partial quote:

Quote:

Spain is more likely to tap the euro zone's new permanent bailout facility, the European Stability Mechanism (ESM), than the current vehicle, the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF), a spokesman for the German Finance Ministry said.