I don't know where Landshark lives, but I live in a country that stole land from native Americans. Shall we give them back their land. I bet they stole land from each other as well. They didn't learn about war from the settlers. Same goes for the rest of North America and South America. How many times have the European borders changed? How about Asia? How far back should we go? We could re-draw borders till doomsday.

Humans have taken land from each other through wars and other means since before recorded time. It's part of our nature to "covet" what is not ours.

Forcing Israel to redraw it's borders to pre-1967 land, thereby withdrawing from land won in a war after it was attacked is not practical. It assumes the rest of the world is guilt free of either stealing land outright or taking land in a war it won fair and square.

Yonatan, not everyone in this forum is anti-Israel. Don't give up on all of us. I know it gets tiring to have to defend your position over and over.

As far as Israel having plans to expand in the Middle East, never heard of such a plan but maybe you have wierdo extremests there, like everyone else on the planet, who might be talking such non-sense.

Are there elite, rich, evil Jews running banks? Sure, also, Anglo's, Asians, and who knows who else is in that mix. So all Jews get a bad name because there are a some evil ones out there. Wow. I guess all blacks are evil because Louis Farrakan is an evil nutcase, not to mention the New Black Panthers. You see where I'm going with this.

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I don't know where Landshark lives, but I live in a country that stole land from native Americans. Shall we give them back their land.I bet they stole land from each other as well.

I live in Texas. And I've not once taken the position here that Israel should in some way give back what they now occupy. And yes, the native American tribes were taking land from others long before Europeans arrived.

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Yonatan, not everyone in this forum is anti-Israel. Yonatan, not everyone in this forum is anti-Israel. Don't give up on all of us. I know it gets tiring to have to defend your position over and over.

Nor am I. Just facing the facts, same was as I face the facts regarding the shortcomings of my own failing country.

The people stole land from the native american tribes are dead. The people who they stole the land from are dead. Only if you believe in children inheriting the sins of their ancestors would it make sense to assert that a tort exists when both the perpetrators and the victims no longer exist, but sins are a religious concept and tort is a legal concept and most places now have sensibly decided that religion should be kept away from law.

I don't know what the right way that people who have had their land stolen by war should obtain compensation from the people who stole it should be but if the people who stole the land are still alive and the people who had it taken are still alive the thieves are ethically accountable for that even if the legal system they've set up doesn't recognize that accountability.

Look - let's at least try to stay on-topic here. The unspoken question implicit in the ambassador's admission is this: How will the U.S. respond to the king's threat? How has the U.S. responded in the past to SA military threats? Here's an illustrative example. Following U.S. sales of F15s to Israel, capable of reaching Riyadh, in the late 70s, King Kalid and Crown Prince Fahd were incensed. They demanded protection and threatened to reduce oil production or instigate another embargo to get it. Bechtel, Litton, Raytheon and others, under license to the U.S. Government, built them a credible air defense system, including enhanced Hawk missile batteries, shelters, roads, communications, and power supply systems. Contracts worth several billion dollars. The economic importance of Saudi oil in the global market has diminished, but not entirely disappeared. So, my guess is that Obama is keenly interested in their threats and they will play a role in the calculus that is leading this nation toward another military action. And this time, Israel is also spoiling for a bit of action. Its coming.

My feeling is also that Saudi demands will dictate the course of actions much more than the security of Israel.

Keep in mind that the Saudis bought the IRBMs to deliver nukes years ago:

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In March 1988, two years after the deal was struck, it was discovered that Saudi Arabia had bought an undisclosed number of CSS-2 "East Wind" intermediate range missiles from China. (1) The number was later put at 50 missiles and nine launchers. (2) According to Assistant Secretary of State Richard Clarke, the missiles were still not operational in late 1989. (3) However, in early June 1990, Flight International reported that, according to Israeli intelligence, the CSS-2 missiles were deployed and operational at two sites: al-Sulaiyil, about 500 km south of Riyadh and al-Joffer, 100 km south of Riyadh. According to the article, each site houses four to six concrete launch pads and stores approximately 60 missiles. (4)

The East Wind's modified range/payload (5) of 2,500 km/2,000 kg (conventional load) brings many countries within striking range, including Israel, the former Soviet Union, and Iran, though the missiles are said to be targeted on Tehran and other Iranian population centers, rather than Israel. The 2.5 km CEP of the CSS-2 missiles, combined with the cost of the purchase (6) has led to a great deal of speculation about Saudi Arabia's intentions. The missiles are far too inaccurate to be used against any point target with either HE or chemical warheads.

http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/missile/sa....

I hope the middle east becomes FULL of nukes. I hope every single nation in the area has a WMD. The entire region can go up in flames for all I care.


Sure we might be endangered by a Jericho styled terrorist plot, but I believe the Sand Kings will be far too interested in each other long as we stay out of it.


Israel? Whatever. They can take care of themselves.

Something is not adding up.

Why would Saudi need nukes if they actually believe US assurances of protection?

IF Saudi HAS nukes then what is the US doing spending money 'protecting' Saudi?


Why does every ME thread get jacked by Yids and MIC freaks yelping about Israel?
-For ****s sake: PLEASE just go start an Israel thread and go throw your feces at Each Other in there...

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Why does every ME thread get jacked by Yids and MIC freaks yelping about Israel?
-For ****s sake: PLEASE just go start an Israel thread and go throw your feces at Each Other in there...

I don't know, maybe because the thread is relevant to our neighborhood? Maybe because there are a few dill weeds on this forum that love to paste the "Israel is the cause of all evils" mantra every time anything happens in the ME and I'm not going to allow them to get away with it unanswered. Who died and left you as room monitor anyway? If you don't like it, don't read or comment on it.

Yonatan, I apologize if I offended you. I'm going to say something, and I hope you take the time to read it and think about it.

I'm definitely NOT anti-Israel, but I cannot agree with the goals and activities of Zionism.

I hope you feel the same way, as it will put you in standing with the majority of your countrymen.

Similarly, I'm not anti-American, but I vehemently oppose the idea of a New American Century, along with the endless, unaffordable, immoral wars and adventures they see fit to conduct with my tax dollars.

I think I can speak for the lot of Americans when I say nobody wants to see the destruction of your country. But you and I both have governments that like to poke at hornets nests.

So, it was stated in 2009, but is being reported now. Drum beats of war, laying down the narrative.

Landshark, your idea that the majority of Israeli's somehow are anti-Zionist is completely incorrect. Mainstream media and our politicians like to trot out little statements that are factually correct in some way but don't portray the bigger picture, which contains the truth of the matter. Case in point - They like to say that the majority of Israeli's are for a 2 state solution or ending the settlements. They never add in the caveat, that the majority would only support a 2 state solution (or any other solution for that matter) where a true peace would be possible and we would not be placed into the crosshairs of having Grad rockets raining down on us from the East as they do now from the South. We won't abandon the Eastern section of Jerusalem and we won't allow any "right of return" that they are demanding. Each of these issues represent life or death, preservation of the Jewish state or destruction of it.

I'm not offended by your statements in the sense that I realize that most people don't have access to what is really going on and have to base their opinions on the information that they possess, regardless of the truth of that information. I try to help in that regard. I don't know how successful I ultimately am, but I keep doing what I can.