Two Chinese fishing ships detained by Russia [NotSoBreakingGeo]

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User Info	Two Chinese fishing ships detained by Russia in forum [NotSoBreakingGeo]
Lplate Posts: 4737 Incept: 2008-08-06 Australia	Quote: http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2012-.... 2012-07-1 VLADIVOSTOK -- Two Chinese fishing ships have been detained off Russia's Far-East region, the Chinese Consulate confirmed on Tuesday. One ship carried 17 fishermen while the other had 19 on board, the consulate told Xinhua, adding both ships were from the city of Weihai in China's eastern Shandong province. The consulate said it was notified by the coastal service of Russia's Far-East Primorsky region, which said the two ships were seized because they entered Russia's exclusive economic zone. One ship was detained at the port of Nakhodka, while the other ship was heading there, the consulate said, adding it was trying to find out if all the fishermen were accounted for. According to the RIA Novosti news agency, a Russian coast guard vessel, the Dzerzhinsky, fired warning shots and then opened targeted fire to stop a Chinese fishing ship that had been fishing for squid. None of the Chinese fishermen were killed or wounded during the incident, RIA said... 2012-07-17 21:52:45 Permalink
Ben Posts: 6201 Incept: 2009-10-09 The Distant, Glorious, Past	The Chinese consider some of the parts of Siberian Russia that border China, to be Chinese Territory [again, read up on recent Chinese history] and that would include the Nakhodka Oblast and the waters around it. ---------- "Why are you going to learn French?" "Because I'm going to France," says Joe. "I'm from the future. You should go to China." 2012-07-17 23:18:26 Permalink
Thystra Posts: 544 Incept: 2009-07-12 Around the World	The chinese may think that, but the Russians might disagree. Just ask the somali pirate that fell off his boat. 2012-07-18 01:05:32 From PDA Permalink
Ben Posts: 6201 Incept: 2009-10-09 The Distant, Glorious, Past	The Chinese think that, and they are well aware that their language and culture predates the creation of Russia, Europe and most languages therein. That's what all arguments will boil down to. They have been there/here longer than you have, and that's that. And they have the maps to show that part of Russia was part of China not 150 years ago, and the Chinese have a "once Chinese/part of China, always..." mentality. ---------- "Why are you going to learn French?" "Because I'm going to France," says Joe. "I'm from the future. You should go to China." 2012-07-18 02:17:49 Permalink
Landshark Posts: 11251 Incept: 2008-02-07 The Wild West	Shhhhh. You guys are about to find something that goes "sprooing!" ---------- Success in life is a matter not so much of talent and opportunity as of concentration and perseverance. � C. W. Wendte Last modified: 2012-07-18 02:28:44 by landshark 2012-07-18 02:27:44 Permalink
Bailout-funder Posts: 1014 Incept: 2008-10-17 SF Bay Area, CA	In the REALITY of history, none of this my-existence-predates-yours bull**** matters (ask the native americans among countless others). What matters is who will--and who can--enforce their beliefs. THAT'S what the arguments will boil down to...always have, always will. Maybe the Chines should read up on their recent and ancient world history. ---------- "As we have now seen, one little lie, repeated often enough, becomes one gigantic mess." "Someone clearly got the best government money can buy, but it certainly wasn�t us." --Karl Denninger 2012-07-18 03:43:19 Permalink
Lplate Posts: 4737 Incept: 2008-08-06 Australia	Quote: again, read up on recent Chinese history Ben - luv ya, but I'm posting this as it may be of interest due to the current aggressive Chinese sea border activity. Last modified: 2012-07-18 04:19:07 by lplate Reason: beer 2012-07-18 04:18:38 Permalink
Rbarreira Posts: 2826 Incept: 2009-05-27 Portugal -> Sweden	Why does Ben have to enter this topic with a condescending attitude even before anyone has made any comments? ---------- In Soviet Russia, the government regulates the banks. Last modified: 2012-07-18 04:37:37 by rbarreira 2012-07-18 04:35:44 Permalink
Kamath Posts: 1539 Incept: 2009-04-04 Sweden	Because that's what he usually does in any thread in which he opines. Now, regarding the Russian response: They don't play games. The Russian history is one of aggressive all-out defence of their territory to their best capabilities. They will do so at any cost to drive any invader out. The Chinese history is one of internal strife and surrender, when attacked or invaded. They have maintained their territory only because they live there in large numbers. ---------- "Yep - and that ***er didn't want to light either. I had to soak it in gasoline for a full day before that rat bastard thing would combust." - Karl Denninger ""We could not be more ill served if we had some South American tribal witch doctor shaking monkey bones at us. " - Infidel 2012-07-18 04:44:47 Permalink*
Ben Posts: 6201 Incept: 2009-10-09 The Distant, Glorious, Past	Quote: Because that's what he usually does in any thread in which he opines. Because I know this subject, and you don't. Quote: In the REALITY of history, none of this my-existence-predates-yours bull**** matters What I am trying to do here is educate you on what the Chinese think and how they are. 1) What you, a Westerner, thinks and believes is irrelevant to the Chinese unless it gives them face ans inflates their ego. That's all they want. And your money. 2) Therefore they are right and you are wrong. 3) Add in the 'Century of Shame' and all the rest, and they tolerate Westerners as a cat tolerates its 'owner'. 4) The Chinese are going to cite any and every historical slight, and since they go back thousands of years there are many of these, to justify any action. Now you can agree or not, I don't care. This is how the Chinese are. So far, no one has listened and now you and The West are in a bind. Still, I hope to open some minds. Maybe. Quote: The Chinese history is one of internal strife and surrender, when attacked or invaded. Excellent example of Western historical ignorance, and the American tendency to think that history began in 1946. When you discuss history, you hold in your mind 1946AD - present. When the Chinese discuss history, they hold in their mind 246BC - present. ---------- "Why are you going to learn French?" "Because I'm going to France," says Joe. "I'm from the future. You should go to China." 2012-07-18 09:01:05 Permalink
Creditcalmass Posts: 1636 Incept: 2008-06-04 New Englands Rising Star	Quote: 1) What you, a Westerner, thinks and believes is irrelevant to the Chinese unless it gives them face ans inflates their ego. That's all they want. And your money. 2) Therefore they are right and you are wrong. Pretty arrogant train of thought for a country that can't feed itself without massive food imports. ---------- "True strength lies in gentleness" 2012-07-18 09:36:52 Permalink
Pcaldallas Posts: 1343 Incept: 2009-03-02 Unicorn Ranch	Siberia is an incredibly large area with vast natural resources, including oil and natural gas. The area has been under-exploited due to its size and lack of infrastructure. Aside from the trans-siberian railroad, there is not much else out there. I guarantee you a war with China will force the exploitation of those resources and the building of infrastructure. Of course, this would be paid for by US tax dollars, but you will not be told the story that way. ---------- "The appearance of law must be upheld, especially when it's being broken." - Boss Tweed, Gangs of New York 2012-07-18 09:38:41 Permalink
Oldpool Posts: 873 Incept: 2010-06-23 LI NY	Who is BEN really? ---------- Liberty, Comrade! 2012-07-18 10:30:14 Permalink
Randy123 Posts: 5776 Incept: 2008-09-24 Earth Online	I would love a Russia/Chinese conflict. ---------- China is the Enemy. Wake Up. New Normal. Same As The Old Awful. 2012-07-18 10:34:07 Permalink
Kamath Posts: 1539 Incept: 2009-04-04 Sweden	"Excellent example of Western historical ignorance, and the American tendency to think that history began in 1946. When you discuss history, you hold in your mind 1946AD - present. When the Chinese discuss history, they hold in their mind 246BC - present." How the **, Benny boy, dare you presume what historical periods I hold in mind in these discussions? You're intolerable, and I add you to my ignore list, just can't discuss anything with self-proclaimed experts who actually don't know jack. In fact, in your arrogant lust to "defeat me", you forgot the fact that I'm not even American. I'm a Slav/Nordic/Swiss-combination, the kind of people who founded Kievan Rus in the 6th century (minus ths Swiss). I don't give a about an arrogant American-hating American like you. You don't even love your own nation even though it still has much left to love, and now you have allied yourself with a government that murders children like they're nothing, seemingly to be able to prove points on a chat board, spouting about how China is going to kill everyone and how they're unstoppable. ---------- "Yep - and that *er didn't want to light either. I had to soak it in gasoline for a full day before that rat bastard thing would combust." - Karl Denninger ""We could not be more ill served if we had some South American tribal witch doctor shaking monkey bones at us. " - Infidel 2012-07-18 19:28:21 Permalink*
Sushihorn Posts: 7802 Incept: 2007-10-22 Arlington, TX	China really has no legitimate claim on the Russian Far East. It was a remote possession of the Manchus - who are not and never were Chinese. They are related to the Mongols, the Koreans and the Japanese. They are now an oppressed minority in their Chinese-colonized homeland (Manchuria) - much like the Tibetans. A Manchu dynasty ruled China at one time - just as the House of Orange once held the British throne. Any Chinese claim to Manchu holdings is as legitimate as a current British claim to the Netherlands. Actually it's even less legitimate than that since the land in question was a dependency and an appendage - not even the homeland of the FOREIGN dynasty which once ruled China. For someone who likes to claim a uniquely enlightened status on things Chinese, Ben sure doesn't have much real knowledge. Basically, he has absorbed the Chinese propaganda view of "history" rather than anything resembling the real thing. But he sure does a good job of parroting back what he's been told and condescending to everybody else. ---------- http://jengafinance.blogspot.com/ Build a banker a fire and keep him warm for a night. Set a banker on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life. Last modified: 2012-07-18 21:17:48 by sushihorn 2012-07-18 21:14:44 Permalink
Asimov Posts: 103941 Incept: 2007-08-26 East Tennessee Eastern Time Online	I don't always agree with ben, but on this, he's dead on accurate. ---------- It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity. If you trade based on what other people say, you will lose money. Especially what I say. I won't be held responsible. Festina lente. 2012-07-19 02:53:49 Permalink
Bailout-funder Posts: 1014 Incept: 2008-10-17 SF Bay Area, CA	Ben thank you for clarifying that what you are REALLY trying to do is just explain what the Chinese mind set is, not what your own personal thoughts are. I'm happy to realize this by now. I'm embarrassed to say that in my last post, I was thinking to ask if you are: (a) Just another self-loathing westerner (a dime a dozen) (b) Just another arrogant chinaman (a dime a billion) But now I see you are probably neither. Anyways, maybe the best question which can reap full advantage of your unparalleled Chines econo-geopolitical knowledge is: Quote: Clearly you have strong opinions about what is the Chinese group think...long memories, etc., blah blah blah I saw it on the history channel, heard it from my crazy chinese senior citizen neighbor, etc.; but what does this tell us--precisely--about their geopolitical actions over the next 10-20 years? I think this is where your thoughts can offer best value. ---------- "As we have now seen, one little lie, repeated often enough, becomes one gigantic mess." "Someone clearly got the best government money can buy, but it certainly wasn�t us." --Karl Denninger Last modified: 2012-07-19 04:45:34 by bailout-funder Reason: reduce offensiveness 2012-07-19 04:26:23 Permalink
Enapa Posts: 1162 Incept: 2008-01-25	China can think what they want. They do not control that land now. If they would like to keep poking a bear than they can. Paper airplanes and bottle rockets arent going to do much though. Oh wait they invented forks too. Yeah forks wont help either. Maybe they can dry clean them to death? 2012-07-19 09:14:42 From PDA Permalink
Nomullet Posts: 6821 Incept: 2007-11-11 SW	Quote: I would love a Russia/Chinese conflict. There is a Chinese proverb about a particular curse... ---------- Don't confuse clear thinking with simplistic thinking. --Nomullet 2012-07-19 09:59:12 Permalink
Kamath Posts: 1539 Incept: 2009-04-04 Sweden	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgIpCb0b4.... EURO 2012 flag. ---------- "Yep - and that ***er didn't want to light either. I had to soak it in gasoline for a full day before that rat bastard thing would combust." - Karl Denninger ""We could not be more ill served if we had some South American tribal witch doctor shaking monkey bones at us. " - Infidel 2012-07-19 19:26:53 Permalink*
Antone Posts: 7663 Incept: 2008-02-03 Seditionia, USSA	Lol. Polish people are cool. ---------- As if anything has changed: Wir sind gefickt. 2012-07-19 19:57:55 Permalink
Flaps10 Posts: 5153 Incept: 2008-10-17 seattle	I also have to support Ben on this one. His boots on the ground knowledge of china is quite useful for us round eyes. Ignore it at your peril. ---------- "Better to die on your feet than live on your knees" 2012-07-23 12:19:50 Permalink
Ben Posts: 6201 Incept: 2009-10-09 The Distant, Glorious, Past	I am merely telling you what I see, hear and absorb. Watch CCTV for a few years and you quickly realize what the Chinese think of various historical events. "Kamath" wrote.. How the **, Benny boy, dare you presume what historical periods I hold in mind in these discussions? You're intolerable, and I add you to my ignore list, just can't discuss anything with self-proclaim If you or anyone other than Mliu or Fraudster offered 1/10th of the insight I do, I will gladly admit I am clueless. The silence is deafening when a news story is posted and NO ONE 'gets' what China's pov is. Then I post it and arguments ensue. As though it is my opinion and not simply an observation. To the Chinese; America, Sweden, Russians, Slavs, Germany - all newcomers. Kievan Rus in the 6th century? Bah. That was the Tang Dynasty*. 1500+ years into Chinese language, culture and history. In the 6th C. China already had printing and gunpowder and a massive list of things that Europeans, Slavs and Cossacks did not have for another 1000 years. "Sushi" wrote.. China really has no legitimate claim on the Russian Far East. It was a remote possession of the Manchus - who are not and never were Chinese. If China can play the victim card, then that dynasty was 'Not really Chinese'. But if they stand to gain, then it is considered historical Chinese territory. They always interpret events to their benefit, regardless. You guys need to GET THIS. What YOU THINK does NOT matter. Western/European notions of history do not apply because the Chinese do not WANT them to apply to them. Now they have money and guns and they want revenge. ---------- "Why are you going to learn French?" "Because I'm going to France," says Joe. "I'm from the future. You should go to China." 2012-07-23 13:17:39 Permalink*
Jata1 Posts: 5059 Incept: 2009-03-08	"Why does Ben have to enter this topic with a condescending attitude even before anyone has made any comments?" You just now noticed that? 2012-07-23 13:19:42 Permalink

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