And China isn't finished yet...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia....

Quote:

Japan’s claim to Okinawa disputed by influential Chinese commentators

In a fiery editorial this month, the Global Times newspaper urged Beijing to consider challenging Japan’s control over its southern prefecture of Okinawa, an island chain with a population of 1.4 million people that bristles with U.S. military bases.

“China should not be afraid of engaging with Japan in a mutual undermining of territorial integrity,” the Communist Party-run paper declared.

Maj. Gen. Jin Yinan, head of the strategy research institute at China’s National Defense University, went even further. He told state-run radio that limiting discussion to the Diaoyu was “too narrow,” saying Beijing should question ownership of the whole Ryukyu archipelago, which by some definitions extends beyond Okinawa.

While the Chinese government has offered no endorsement of such radical views, their open espousal by senior commentators is likely to be deeply unsettling both to Japan and other neighboring nations.

These people are nuts. What's next, Tokyo is theirs too?

They are completely delusional - to the point of insanity.

This is the point that Ben kept complaining about every time I made it. Extending this "logic" would allow China to claim everything from Poland and Iran eastward - including all of Russia. Since the Mongols ruled all of that including China, some ******* Chinese will feel themselves entitled to claim it all.

Thanks for the updated info re: tanks Kamath.

Quote:

I will never post another word on China again to TF.

Somehow I doubt that, unless you're saying that you will no longer make any posts on TF again.

If that is indeed true, can we get Mliu unbanned to fill the void?? Otherwise, I will be a sad panda.

Ben :

Quote:

I am done trying to help you avoid becoming the next empire in decline.

With all due respect Ben, your PERSPECTIVE on the Chinese culture is interesting but it does indeed have to go through the filter of the worlds reality.

We (USA) have been collectively sold down the river and our downfall can be directly attributed to greed. Greed from the FSA as well as greed from the top down. China is an ancillary phenom as it pertains to Uncle Sham's downfall. Uncle Sham has been sold to the highest bidder, the multi-national corps.

....but again, you do get an "A" for your effort.

I rarely agree with your assertion that China will be the harbinger of our downfall simply because you showed up late for the party. We're already toast.

Greed is all it took.

Quote:

I am done trying to help you avoid becoming the next empire in decline.

Interesting choice of pronoun for someone who claims to be an American expat. Of course someone who still considered themselves to be an American would have used "us" instead of "you" but I guess it shouldn't be a surprise given the way you identify with China.

Sushi,
I agree with most of what you said. Where I diverge - and it is only a slight divergence at the end of the day - is that what you take for "delusion," I see as calculated. I think that the Chinese are trying to dupe us into thinking that they are so irrational for the purpose of exacting a better result in negotiation on the issue. This works for nuclear-armed nation states in that they believe that the other side - the U S of A in this case - would go somewhat farther against self-interest to close a deal because the alternative would be continued confrontation with the nuclear-tipped country. This approach has worked somewhat for the DPRK. The Chinese have "worked" with us (studied us) and have seen that when we work through problems we give a little more because the other side is nuclear-armed. I'm not saying that's a new approach, but the nuclear-armed example is something we can see in context.

I appreciated your response to the complete bull**** about how long the Chinese have been around. Who the **** cares for purposes of preparing for and fighting actual enemies. If you haven't gone through actual large scale warfighting the fact that you did so hundreds or thousands of years ago doesn't matter. America has been around for 230 plus years, but using the "we've been around forever" approach, people came from some other region, etc. Just silly.

Finally, I have always pegged Ben as one with a pro-China agenda. Juxtaposing his current posts that describe Chinese, "not his," positions, with his earliest posts (based on my memory), it seems to me that the pure observer claim seems disingenuous.

It has been said that the Greek never accomplish anything because they are always standing in the shadow of their ancestors.

The effects of ancient culture are real and not always beneficial.

Very interesting antics from Ben, who never hesitates to patronize others (sometimes even before they have said a single word in a given thread), but apparently can't take any criticism without behaving like a drama queen / attention ***** (i.e. the threats to stop posting).

FWIW I also find some of Ben's posts interesting, it's just his attitude that sucks...

It should be clarified that RJazz's picture refers to a vehicle, I referred to a specific tank main gun round, fired by the 120mm M256 gun of the Abrams (basically a Rheinmetall gun).

Nomullet +1

Check this out. This would ruin your day for sure...

http://americannationalmilitia.com/wp-co....

What the **** was that, Duc?

Nomullet,

It has also been said - by none other than Tom Petty- that "you get lucky sometimes.". Maybe the Greeks fit in such a category. All kidding aside, I dare say that though young in years, the American "culture," consists of people who come from some other geographic place and culture days, years and even generations ago. The fact that you leave the group think of a cultural in its ancestoral home does not mean you lose that culture. For many of us, we maintain that unique aspect of ourselves and pass it down to our children. Point being country age is not the relevant factor.

In any case, I think the pluses and minuses of an ancient culture tend to make the grandiose claims of how one's culture is so much better, tougher, resilient or whatever from another to simply be a criteria to assess in light of many.

Shoulder launched whoop-ass on a tank.

LOL

http://americannationalmilitia.com/2012/....

Don't know if it's sourced correctly...just thought I'd show it 'cause it's a cool way to be demolecularized and then burnt into dust and then have your ashes scattered over 200 yards or so.

I do not impress easily.... but that little knob job sure gets the job done, hugh?

Duc, just...that's a western made propaganda film at its middleist? Either way, certainly not a modern tank with ammunition separation.

Nor is there a live crew in there one way or the other. [badteeth}

Of course it was a target drone with no crew.

That was probably a Top Attack ATGM, a Javelin, or possibly a latest generation TOW-2B. I don't think it was an actual event like the text says.

The tank silhouette seems to be too high for a Soviet tank, which are generally more compact. I think it's more likely to be a 105mm Israeli Sherman tank. Which if true, means that it could also have been a Top Attack Shrike missile, which the Israelis use.

Just my opinion, I will yield to anyone with superior information on the matter.

After looking at the clip a couple of more times, I would suppose that the tank could also be a Leopard 1 version, or some other Western tank model with a rectangularish turret. All older Russian models use a low silhouette rounded turret. The newer ones such as T-80 and T-90 (with the exception of the Tagil) have a slightly less rounded and broader turret, but not squarish like this one is. And Syria doesn't have those tanks anyway.

But again, I will yield if anyone comes up with superior information on it. For now, my conclusion is that this is a test of a Western ATGM, possibly a top attack, and that the target is an old tank used as a target drone.