Not sure how this will effect the shares, depends on media coverage I presume.

Quote:

Grand Cherokee Statement for Teknikens Varld Test

Chrysler Group engineers are investigating a Swedish magazine's evaluation of the 2012 Grand
Cherokee. During the evaluation, the publication was able to capture images of a Grand Cherokee on two wheels as it performed an extreme maneuver in an overloaded condition.

Advised of this event by the magazine, Chrysler Group engineers made numerous attempts to
reproduce the wheel-lift in a properly loaded vehicle. Extensive testing produced no such result.
A subsequent evaluation was conducted by the magazine July 8 in Sweden and witnessed by Chrysler Group engineers. Three vehicles performed 11 runs on a course prepared by the magazine. None reproduced the original event.

The uncharacteristic result was obtained using a vehicle loaded beyond its weight specifications. The Grand Cherokee's weight limitations are clearly stated on the vehicle and in the owner's manual. Also, the extreme maneuver performed by the magazine is not certified by any regulatory agency, nor is it used to establish any sanctioned safety ratings.
Chrysler Group takes seriously any safety concerns and engineers are examining the event to better understand the magazine's claims.

A "Top Safety Pick" of the U.S. Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, the 2012 Grand Cherokee is an award-winning SUV that features Electronic Stability Control and Electronic Roll Mitigation as
standard equipment. It meets or exceeds all government safety mandates and its outstanding
performance has made it the most awarded SUV in history.

The new Cherokee fails the moose test, and TV label the car the most dangerous since the Mercedes flip over in 1997.
Jeep claims foul, and says other tested it ok, but TV has 40 years experenice and is very credible IMO.
Make up your own mind, but from my perspective the handling looks really lousy,
and even if the car was overladed it should not blow a tire half the time doing evasive manouvre.

In the US it got 3 out of 5 stars in the rollover test,
but the info is missing from the IIHS site.

Regardless the Jeep media response is pretty badly handled:

http://www.teknikensvarld.se/jeepmoosete....

AMS Counter claim:

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/news/....

Then there was this of course:

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/....

I just recently purchased a new Grand Cherokee. I am pleasantly surprised by its nimble handling characteristics.

The AWD systems really gives it a grip on and off the road. I go into some pretty hairy places in mud and deep sand. It is impressive in flooded road situations with stability and a lack of hydro-planing.

Last week we were rear ended at a stop light by a blazer pulling a camper trailer. The unibody did its job and absorbed the impact with minimal damage to the vehicle. We drove off while the other guy was left to be towed. My trailer hitch had something to do with his problems.

I'm pretty happy with it so far. Of course, I'm not out to prove it fails at the extremes of every situation.

All Jeep-like vehicles have a higher CG than a car and will handle extreme maneuvers of this sort POORLY.

I once spun a coupe 360 degrees on dry pavement (don't ask) in an extreme maneuvering situation with a maximum load in the vehicle (and perhaps beyond GVWR - it was STUFFED); it was NOT a fun experience. The car had the infamous 721 Firestone tires on it that many people called "death traps." Well, I swore BY them after that incident; there were scrape marks all the way up the sidewalls and on the flange of the RIMS after that maneuver indicating that the steel of the rim made contact with the roadway, but the tires did not dismount.

Had one or more of them popped I would have been dead for certain. As it was, other than a new pair of underwear, everything was fine.

If that had been a Jeep it would have rolled. You just can't do that sort of thing in a vehicle with a high CG and get away with it.

wait, my truck doesnt handle as good as that sports car over there !

OMGWTFBBQ

No one Told MEEE!!!!!!!!!11111111

Well, the 2005 model passed the test...
There is something amiss here, might be a combination of several things:

- ESP
- anti skid/lock
- ESC
- weight (TV claims the vehicle is 200-300 pound heavier that specified)
- choice of tires and rims

The Toyota Land cruised failed the test in 2007 and recalled the model in europe.
They had chosen low profile tires with fantastic grip, and replaced with normal tires and smaller rims.
Skoda Superb failed in 2010 and they realized they had to use a different tire pressure.
As a consequence of the heavier vehicle they are overloaded with 5 persons and 200 poinds of cargo...

The Mitubishi SUV (outlander?) managed the test well.

Years ago I used to own an Izuzu Trooper. I let my cousin drive it while on a long trip and he had the tires off the ground while we were taking a tight turn on an exit ramp. Oopps.

People's driving skills are so bad in general (IMHO, from what I see on the road) it constantly shocks me that they are willing to put their children in tall, topheavy vehicles, then drive them at 60+ MPH when they damn well know that they don't have the skills to deal with the slightest emergency at speed.

All the electronics are nice, but if your reactions aren't correct, they can only do so much. New cars have ABS that finally works decently, but anything older than 10 years, it's easy to outperform the ABS if you're practiced.

Tires that have a sidewall so soft that you scrape the rim when doing a 360 are a good portion of why you would be doing a 360 in the first place, but emergency maneuvers will take you off the beaten path regardless...that those tires flexed that much but didn't come off the rim is a mark of quality, and I'd assume they were designed for ride quality over performance. I bet the people calling them Death Traps don't take that into account.

I would encourage anyone and everyone to learn to drive well enough to deal with slides and skids at 60-70MPH, use the brakes well rather than blindly rely on ABS, and expand their situational awareness skills...especially if they shuttle kids around much.

If anyone here wants a study path to get good at these things by practicing safely, with low impact on their personal vehicle (Rather than spending hundreds or thousands at a performance driving school) I would be happy to write one up. I am considering writing a book on the subject. Like anything, it takes time and effort to learn, but it can make a big difference at a bad time, and it makes driving more fun.

I spent many hours on dirt roads with no ditches or obstacles on the sides when I was younger; I understand 10-10ths driving.

And I would like an off SWITCH for the ABS and other "funky features" on modern vehicles. Yes, I know I can pull the fuse... I want it selectable. I grew up without the crutches and don't need them; I can outperform them nearly all the time anyway.

these tires suck ! they make the ride all bumpy!

I can't believe this tire only lasted 80k miles on them. what pieces of **** !

these tires are terrible in the snow ! what pieces of **** !

these breaks suck ! they make too much noise and too are to dirty and are too extreme in when i step on the pedal.



in all seriousness though i wonder what an average 10, hell 5 foot breaking decrease across the fleet would do for accidents...

if i had to bet it would be more then all the texting, dui and other bull**** laws combined.

but of course it is unreasonable as well the ride is too bumpy

Don't tromp the brakes in my Jetta unless you want to STOP.

I have the luxury of making damn sure they work.

They do.

If everyone spent an hour learning the edges and limits of traction on dirt or snow while they were learning to drive, it would make a huge difference.

Around here, central California, as soon as it rains people start crashing into each other, and things. Anyone who moved here from the East coast, or anywhere it snows, scratch their heard in bewilderment and carefully but confidently drive on without problems...

Yep.

It didn't hurt that I grew up where it snowed half a foot+ more nights than not, and there were no plows early enough to matter.

You either knew how to drive at the limit of your traction both laterally and in acceleration and braking, where it was, and how much margin you had left or you were immediately ****ed.

Quote:

If everyone spent an hour learning the edges and limits of traction on dirt or snow while they were learning to drive, it would make a huge difference.

which button is that? and does it have bluetooth ?

i actually got yelled at by my gf even though it was not my fault

I put Bridgestone RE960 on the tsx years ago. They are marketed as all season. But really they are not. They don't work in the snow very well. And the compound doesn't really like the cold either. But i never bothered to change them out because it didn't snow that much, and id either stay home or just drive easier knowing i had much less grip. You can get around fine if you are careful i drove on them in the snow etc. Just go slower and make your inputs smoother.

So then i give the car to the girlfriend and...

Due to snow coming like the next day i didn't have then switched out in time and when i went to the tire store they only had 2 tires in my size that were also all season, but a much less aggressive tread pattern and much larger void spaces and siping etc. So i bought them and told them to stick em on the front so i could turn in, and ordered the other two.

So it snows. Call it a few inches. Shes driving im in the passenger side. and i say

Listen. Your fronts are new, and will be ok in this little amount of snow, nothing like a snow tire, but ok. Its probably what you are used to as you never bought snow tires for any of your cars. ha !

The rears however are probably like hockey pucks by now as it is 20 degrees. You will have no grip in the rear. So begin braking way before you need to at partial pedal pressure as a panic break may lock the rear and put you into a flat spin when you do not expect it. Break way before the apex and generally go easy as even when you are not breaking its slippery and you have basically zero grip vs what you are used to.

All good right !

So she pulls out of the driveway... gets the car strait.. goes to turn at the corner to get out of the complex, and in 1 second the ass end was in the front

Then she yells at me for not telling her. and says me telling her that the car has no grip is meaningless as i say that about "normal" cars too

Quote:

Around here, central California, as soon as it rains people start crashing into each other, and things. Anyone who moved here from the East coast, or anywhere it snows, scratch their heard in bewilderment and carefully but confidently drive on without problems...

Yeah.. I'm one of those people (30 years in MD -> sunnyvale CA). Watching the rain driving is quite amusing.. though I tend to only go out in the 'rubber and steel' coated vehicle (lifted wrangler) when its like that. I figure that one is harder for others to screw up.

I also find it amusing that a good number of the 20 somethings my GF knows from the bay area have NEVER driven out of it. Oakland is a VERY SCARY place (yet doesn't trip my spidey sense like Baltimore or DC would) and most are too afraid to drive RT 17 to santa cruz.

And yeah.. they tend to be on edge a bit when my GF and I drive. We spend the weekends @ track days, autox, and rallyx.. building a rally car (that's fun in CA).. On several occasions I've heard 'wow.. I didn't know a car could do that'..

As for this Jeep.. Well, I wouldn't even really call this thing a Jeep. It does look like not enough sidewall stiffness + not enough pressure for the load being carried.

I hate ABS on dry and wet roads. Only place I've found that I really liked them was in light snow/ice, where it's slick for a few feet, then you have traction, then slick for a few feet, etc. There's no doubt that it can out brake me under those conditions. But dry or wet... Well... Sure do wish there was an emphasis on threshold breaking during your driving test.

Deep snow or in deep gravel, ABS will hurt your stopping distance considerably. You can stop much faster in both conditions if you lock up the brakes. (It "plows" the snow/gravel and causes big mounds of both in front of the tires.)

jeep had the same issue with the 2002 Liberty, one ragazine made it get on 2 wheels, next year was 2" lower... and a worse off road vehicle

This safety craze has flat ruined off-road capability of most SUVs. I know, most are driven by soccer mom's, to and from church, the store, etc. and are about as likely to be found off-road as I am to wonder the Moon. But, doggone it, I want high ground clearance and locking differentials (just try evasive maneuvering with your cherries locked!). Damned Swedes just want to put those soccer moms in their Woe-Woes. Overloaded? Why not deflate the tires too! Chrysler should show them their middle finger.

I've owned six Grand Cherokees since they came out in 1993. Put well over 100K on each of them. Current one is a 2008 Overland 4x4 w/5.7 hemi. Best, most reliable cars I've ever owned. And each one seems to handle better than the previous one. But honestly, I've never been in an extreme handling situation with a fully loaded vehicle. And sure wouldn't want to be, either.