http://www.defensenews.com/article/20120....

Quote:

Poland To Acquire 1,000 New Tanks

The Polish Army plans to acquire up to 1,000 new tanks in different variants, reported local daily Rzeczpospolita.

The Polish tank program is part of a plan to overhaul the country’s land forces. In January, Polish Defense Minister Tomasz Siemoniak said that “launching a national tank program as part of efforts to increase the [land forces’] mobility” is one of the Army’s key modernization priorities.

As earlier reported, the prototype is a 32- to 40-ton vehicle, depending on the configuration. The light tank carries a 120mm gun by Swiss group Ruag, and it can carry a crew of three to seven. The Anders was fitted with a 530-kilowatt engine produced by Germany’s MTU Friedrichshafen, which enables a maximum speed capacity of 50 mph. Its turret was equipped with a Trophy active protection system made by Israel’s Rafael.

The Polish military plans to begin testing the Anders within two years, Skrzypczak said.

1000 tanks... testing to begin within 2 years... they won't have those 1000 tanks for at least 10 years.

Tanks are so World War II.

Is it just me or is that extremely odd? I just dont picture poland even having 1000 tanks.

I'm pretty sure they can easily pick up German Leopard 2s as a lot of armies are still shrinking from their cold war highs. There's also a chance they can get some Abrams tanks, we have a deal in the works to give Greece 400 so I'm sure we could give Poland some too if the will is there.

Poland seems to want to build a domestic tanks development know how and manufacturing capability...

Greece is getting 400 M1s? What in the mother **** for? They ought to be punched in the face 400 times for being such economic laggards, pay off some debt and **** before buying war toys. Man I hope those are not going to be financed! lolz

My understanding is that they only have to pay the shipping costs.

They need the tanks so they can walk away from the debt.

The Greeks get those tanks financed by the Germans that will be used to kill Germans in the ensuing war

Prob same deal with Poland

"Is it just me or is that extremely odd? I just dont picture poland even having 1000 tanks."

1000 tanks is nothing compared to Cold War capabilities. They currently field a range of tanks: T-72's which are being phased out, Leopard 2's, and their own tank PT-91 Twardy, which is a Polish derivative of the T-72. Almost the entire PT-91 component chain is made by domestic manufacturers.

Total numbers at present are around 900 tanks and 1500 IFV/APC's.

I'm shaking in my boots! /sarc off

Why would you do that Sean? Poland considers themselves to be your ally.

Reminds me of an old AC/DC song. "...got myself a Cadillac, but I can`t afford the gasoline..."

Seems like a reasonable move to me.

Poland is located on the Northern European plain... which is tank country.

It's also between Russia and Germany. If Germany splits from the US/UK bloc and decides to align itself economically with Russia, then Poland would be in a precarious place.

Eh? Is that on the German radar, first I've heard anyone mention it.

Markgoldman: It has been going on for years now. Read up on the Nordstream.

Both Sweden and Poland, as well as the Baltic states, would do well to align themselves more with Russia. However, old resentments might prevent that. Then again, Poland and Russia began mending fences back in 2009, so I would imagine it to be less of a problem now, especially if Russia assumes a rather non-threatening position.

I've said for a long time that the next powerblock in the European region would be Germany-Poland-Russia, and I believe that prediction will come true.

Anyway, Sweden's territorial waters were most recently violated by a German destroyer, who refused to leave for upwards of an hour. That is in addition to the Russians holding large-scale invasion drills for taking our island of Gotland, which is of strategic interest if you want to control the Baltic Sea and protect the Nordstream pipeline.

So we are already feeling the pressure from the Germans and Russians. Not that they'll invade us, but they sure don't want us to oppose their pipeline project in any way.

Kamath wrote..

. . . Poland and Russia began mending fences back in 2009, so I would imagine it to be less of a problem now . . .

I'm certain that the plane crash which killed so many Polish leaders/VIPs preparing to attend the Katyn observances did little to help Russian-Polish relations. From the last news items I've read/heard about (many, many months ago), there were still many open questions about what/why/how that happened that the official reports fail to adequately explain.

Can you provide info/links about any "final" reports that both sides are willing to accept as accurate and comprehensive? Are relations still soured or are they back to pre-crash levels of co-operation?

i guess this means some company will get a nice contract to retrofit those tanks with 4 reverse gears and 1 forward gear.

Well...

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120805/....

Quote:

Russia’s Baltic Fleet to Hold Large-Scale Drills in Kaliningrad Exclave

Right next to Poland.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew....

Quote:

Russia 'simulates' nuclear attack on Poland

Russia has provoked outrage in Poland by simulating an air and sea attack on the country during military exercises.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew....

Quote:

Russia threatens Nato with military strikes over missile defence system

Russia has threatened Nato with military strikes against in Poland and Romania if a missile defence radar and interceptors are deployed in Eastern Europe.

Obama is such a pussy, really. He needs to get on TV an publicly put Putin in his place. We really need some adults in our White house. I know Reagan blew it economically, however, politically how do you think he would have responded to this BS, so few years after we dismembered them in the cold war? I am not calling for military action in any way. Its just we are being constantly provoked now at a greater frequency over the last 4 years by the Russians, yet we here not a word from the state department or our fearless leader BO. I mean really WTF.

If I was Poland I would be trying to acquire 10,000 tanks. Seriously. WTF

Kamath. I consider and officially Poland is an Allie. However, I would venture to say 90% or more of the people in the USA could even point to it on a blank map, even fewer could name one city, and even fewer than that could give you any sense of the History of Poland for even the last 100 years which is a must to understand why they are our allies.

We are dieing as a Nation.

Spazznout: I understand your points. However, it is my opinion that if one studies the issue carefully, it really is the US and NATO that have been breaking the treaties over the last few years and decades.

Putin and Russia are just responding to that, IMO. They said years ago that "if NATO does that, we will do this". They're just sticking to their words.

I am of Polish decent, and I'm of the opinion that Poland should be more neutral as a nation and not choose sides so much. Maintain good relations with both powerblocks on either side. History shows that no empire lasts forever, and when the time comes to shift allegiance, you'll perceived as shifty.

BTW, Russia holds drills against anyone which it perceives as a target, which is only responsible of their military. Any military should have plans ready for any eventuality they may find themselves in.

I really do not see a problem with it. They've not been able to finance large-scale operations for a long time, I think people are overreacting now that they can do so again.

They see the Western moves as aggressive, the West sees them as aggressive. The solution IMO is for both sides to admit that they are both maintaining offensive capabilites against each other, but then also agree that war must be avoided at all costs and that peaceful co-existence and trade is the only way forward.

Quote:

Eh? Is that on the German radar, first I've heard anyone mention it.

Here's a pretty good overview of that scenario and the underpinnings that are driving it:

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20100621_....

Kamath,

For context, I am a military brat, who lived 9 years in Germany growing up. I lived in Berlin before, during, and after the wall came down. While living in
Berlin my family was very active in and attended an international church. Shortly after the wall fell a massive amount of migration from eastern block countries crushed west Berlin as it was the closest Western embassies to their home countries. We helped many immigrant christian polish, and Lithuanian families in many ways. From the American military, consulate, and state department members of the church helping with the state dept. and visas, pulling many strings to help expedite the process. To helping with a few dollars in their pockets, to finding accommodations for them and often times paying for or subsidizing the costs for them. We allowed many families to stay with us in our home for weeks at a time while they were trying to transit to either the US or other western countries.


In my opinion, The only way for Poland to stay neutral during the coming political shake up, they need to be armed for WW3, and have the country so well protected that it is too painful for an invading army to cross its borders from either side. If generals deem the land too costly in lives and dollars Poland has a chance at neutrality. Other than that, simply due to its geographic location, it will continue to be contested territory politically.

I understand we have broke many treaties. Its dumb, we need to just back out of em if we do not want to keep them in place. I also agree that there is no reason for this tit for tat that continues to play out on both the US and Russian military espionage, and irritating tactics we both play. Honestly its tired and extremely artificial in my opinion. After the Berlin wall fell, and the US gave China, a communist country, most favored trade status, we no longer had a dog in the game in the "fight against communism." In fact that act alone really made a mockery and joke of the entire cold war. Why did it even need to take place, the cold war. if in the late 1940's we had signed a most favored trade status with the soviet union, (also a communist country and the primary claimed reason for the cold war), and we decided as war time partners and victors to work for the common good of both nations people. What would the world look like today? The answer to why that did not happen is easy, money, and power, and most importantly to control what the population percieves as reality in order to maintain the power, and money.

Ahh, sorry, gotta a light buzz on this afternoon and I am rambling.

Have a great week!

Edit to Add,

Kamath, read that article Bjonsson, linked to. He posted it while I was writing this post. It lays out the history that most ignore when discussing politics. It is a very well laid out piece hitting the highlights without going into all the good (some might say boring) details. It also lays out why 10,000 tanks for Poland may be a good investment if they with to be a neutral country.