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Tickerguy
Posts: 168118
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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****.

It's too big to upload, but there's a new paper out showing positive correlation between flu vaccine rates and Covid mortality. And it's not a small deviation either. In fact, it's a REALLY BIG ONE.

Sometimes I hate being right.

Inline

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Lemonaid
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Metro Detroit
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What's it look like normalized for age?

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"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved." Ludwig von Mises
Tickerguy
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It's deaths per million against influenza vaccination in 65 and older. I have the raw data here and am going through it; unfortunately what I got was a PDF so no easy way to suck it all into something.

Correlation is not causation but if you remember one of my "hammer points" for months has been since they've said there's no problem with the flu vaccine "why don't you just release the ****ing data, since everyone over 65 in the US is on Medicare and thus CMS has the billing for the flu shot if they got it."

Then it's easy -- do a regression analysis on the people who died "of Covid" with and without adjusting for comorbidities.

But nobody's done it. IN other words, just a "trust me" and no proof.

Well, if this is right then they're telling people to die by urging them to get the flu shot NOW.

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Bkmiller
Posts: 380
Incept: 2008-08-30

PA
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Thanks, TG

Personally was having doubts about getting my annual flu vax, due to ADE. (I usually do get it).

Last year's vax was only ~40% effective, IRRC.

Things that make me go "hmmmmmmmmmmmm....."
Asimov
Posts: 119638
Incept: 2007-08-26

East Tennessee
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About ****ing time some hard data came out on this. The hints have been pissing me off for a long time now.

We *KNOW* the government/CDC has the data.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Tickerguy
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Oh boy.....

Remember the claim -- that there was a NEGATIVE association (that is, you SHOULD get the flu shot)? Well...

Quote:
Contrary to expectations, the present worldwide analysis and European sub-analysis do not support the previously reported negative association between COVID-19 deaths (DPMI) and IVR in elderly people, observed in studies in Brazil and Italy

Uh, that ain't so good.

They also found no statistical predictive value in mask mandates. Oops.

Quote:
Although countywide lockdowns and use of face masks by the general public should reduce COVID-19 transmission (Conyon, He & Thomsen, 2020; Eikenberry et al., 2020), the variables lockdown degree and the degree of requirement for mask use in public were not associated with DPMI and CFR in the present study


Again -- associations does NOT prove causation. They DO however, demand further study.

BUT -- and this is important -- LACK OF ASSOCIATION DISPROVES CAUSATION.

There go the masks.

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Krzelune
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Sorry, numbskull question. Is IVR the flu vaccine?
Tickerguy
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Yep. Influenza vaccine rate among people >65.

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Spence
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Incept: 2009-09-11

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Is the chart in the first post just for the USA? If so, what is the meaning of 'vaccination rate', i.e. by city, state, etc?
Tickerguy
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No, it's a look on a GLOBAL basis.

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Spence
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OK, so it could be a correlation where in 'developed' countries people can get fat and develop lots of co-morbidities and get a free flu shot. Although I think in a lot of poor countries now people get pretty fat too.
Asimov
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Quote:
October is prime time for flu vaccinations, and the U.S. and Europe are gearing up for what experts hope is high demand as countries seek to avoid a twindemic with COVID-19.

Theres considerable concern as we enter the fall and winter months and into the flu season that well have that dreaded overlap of flu and the coronavirus, Dr. Anthony Fauci of the U.S. National Institutes of Health said Thursday. He got his own flu shot earlier this week.

A record number of flu vaccine doses are on the way, between 194 million and 198 million for the U.S. alone -- seemingly plenty considering last year just under half of adults got vaccinated and there usually are leftovers.


https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbrea....

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Tickerguy
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I'm not even going to tell you what I think ought to happen to him if there is interference -- and there is some evidence that there is.

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Asimov
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East Tennessee
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Best saved for the imagination anyway.

I can't believe he believes his own bull**** anyway. I wouldn't be a bit shocked to find out he really didn't have one.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Wakeupcall
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Hampton Roads, VA
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I have never gotten a flu shot. Dh used to get them regularly in usaf, rarely now that he is retired. Funny, I dont think I ever had the flu. He hasnt got it in years, but did several times while in military. I used to tease him whenever he went for his annual flu shot. Then mock him after he recovered from the flu he sometimes got a couple months later.

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Obseedian
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Diversitopia
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I never had a flu shot in my life, and my parents (both over 70) refuse to get them as well.

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Wearedoomed
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Is this new paper online anywhere?

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Tickerguy
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If and when I see it pop up online I'll let everyone know.

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Flyanddive
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One factor in this, is in my experience, people who avoid vaccines are usually significantly more healthy.

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Attilahooper
Posts: 3670
Incept: 2007-08-28

New York, by way of Montreal Canada.
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Holy ****, so the data implies that death rate from covid19 increases with vaccine use. However, point taken, those with health issues are more likely to get the flu shot. So not necessarily causation.

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Tickerguy
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Exactly @Attilahooper.

And note that they attempted to control for comorbidities, but that's a population level estimate and thus is really rather poor when it comes to predictive value.

What bothers me MUCH MORE is that the DOJ caught a cross-interference problem with coronaviruses and the flu vaccine a few years ago. The total interference/protection level was not statistically significant in that rhinoviruses and hantaviruses were protected against to some degree by the flu shot while coronaviruses were enhanced -- so the net effect was near-zero. The problem is that those other viruses generally produce colds and are not serious.

But now take one of the classes, the one that got enhanced, and change it from "annoyance level" to "can kill you" and suddenly the picture changes. That's two pieces of evidence on one side of the scale, and that would make me VERY nervous if someone told me to get a flu shot.

To be fair LAST YEAR you can reasonably believe nobody knew in October that there would be a problem with this. But THIS year that dog does not hunt, and urging people to get the shot is a hell of a lot more complicated computation.

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Riceday
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