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| Toilet Paper Tuesday? in forum [Ticker]
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Krellan
Posts: 203
Incept: 2008-01-18
Silly Valley, CA
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I wish I could find the news article, but I remember reading a week or so ago about how many oil storage facilities are filling up or already at full capacity, despite the high price of oil.
The reason is thought to be speculators, who are taking delivery as their futures contracts come due, and storing the oil as an investment. I guess the idea would be to sell new futures contracts in later months, at a higher price.
So, that would dampen the argument that speculators would be forced to sell out of the commodity as their futures contracts come due. However, I still can't find this news article, so take it lightly.
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Nu_uh
Posts: 1127
Incept: 2008-02-21
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Damn, you have been on a ticker writing rampage lately. Every one is better and better. I'm not sure what else to say other than nice work.
I happen to disagree about Rick Santelli's explanation of futures speculation. If you roll your contracts forward you never have to take delivery. Speculators do not take delivery. So, all you have to do to check to see if they are actually holding positions is to look at the open interest. If speculators are driving up prices there would be a constantly increasing number of open contracts. I do not see any evidence of this, so the conclusion is still the same. There is a supply/demand imbalance here.
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Bozonian
Posts: 19962
Incept: 2007-09-01
Saratoga Springs, New York
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Excuse my dumbness. When you sign up for futures trading do you have to specify a physical address where deliveries will take place for all your contracts? And I suppose the commodity side of the trade is responsible for shipping?
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The most expensive thing you can have is a closed mind. -- Geoffrey Filburt
Everything I write is my opinion and not to be considered proven fact. Nothing I write should be considered financial advice.
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Meatpuddle
Posts: 634
Incept: 2007-07-26
Madame Merriweather's Mudhut Malaysia
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Brilliant work again KD! Breaking through the BS seems to be one of your specialties. I don't believe that this is a "speculator" problem any more than I believe this is about "Bush's War" or "Peak Oil" or "Chindia demand" or any other bull**** story. Sure, these things have some truth to them and they are contributing some of the upside lift - like maybe $20 worth.
The rest of the move is a perfectly justifiable flight to real assets while our currency is debased and the US treasury and Fed balance sheets are destroyed. Inflation numbers are a joke and can't be trusted. The common man knows this and it is showing up in the unhinged inflation expectations and the consumer sentiment. The real danger in a crack-up-boom is when commodities become a replacement for the currency. This is incredibly dangerous and represents a complete destruction of our financial systems. We have wiped away literally thousands of years of financial progress when people start using "stuff" (ie oil, food, gold, etc.) as a substitution for an actual sound currency. It's Mad Max economics.
So having said this, if the Fed (and the other central banks) created this oil bubble monster they can also destroy it. But they better make quick work of it before it destroys them. Of course the solution is accurate accounting, transparency, fraud control, balance sheet restoration but most importantly much HIGHER interest rates. Higher rates will encourage folks to SAVE rather than speculate on asset bubbles to stay ahead of actual inflation which is probably around 10-12% or even more.
Will higher rates lead to GD2? Sure, but there are MUCH worse things than a depression, like hyperinflation, hoarding, and chaos for example (Mad Max).
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"the idea that you're "entitled" to a 5 or 6 percent 30 year mortgage is horse****, and so is the housing prices that it has created." - Genesis
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Darknight
Posts: 3293
Incept: 2007-08-10
The Wicked Forrest
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Boz,
Didn't you see the documentary on Leave it to Beaver? I believe it involved egg futures although my memory is a bit hazy...
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The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
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Pel
Posts: 653
Incept: 2008-01-22
Texas
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Bozonian wrote..Excuse my dumbness. When you sign up for futures trading do you have to specify a physical address where deliveries will take place for all your contracts? And I suppose the commodity side of the trade is responsible for shipping? It depends on the commodity. Some commodities consider physical delivery fulfilled with a shipping receipt delivered. If you were long, you could then take the shipping receipt to the grain elevator (or what have you) and go pick it up! Having a look at oil, it's a bit more complicated: Quote:(B) At buyer's option, such delivery shall be made by any of the following methods:
(1) By interfacility transfer ("pumpover") into a designated pipeline or storage facility with access to seller's incoming pipeline or storage facility.
(2) By in-tank transfer of title to the buyer without physical movement of product; if the facility used by the seller allows such transfer, or by in-line transfer or book-out if the seller agrees to such transfer.
(C) All deliveries made in accordance with these rules shall be final and there shall be no appeal.
(D) Any seller delivering less than 5 contracts for one customer shall deliver out of storage at the Equilon Pipeline Company LLC facilities, unless the buyer and seller mutually agree to exempt the seller from this requirement. The various exchanges describe the delivery methods in detail if you dig hard enough. I found this particular one at http://www.nymex.com/rule_main.aspx?pg=3....
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Federal Reserve Governor Fisher wrote.."My dissenting vote last week was simply a difference of opinion about how far and how fast we might re-spike the monetary punchbowl."
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Genesis
Posts: 131486
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Yeah, and the fun part of it is that if its a "delivery by invoice" (as opposed to a dump of the **** on your front yard) you get billed for storage on a demurrage basis.
That gets expensive FAST and since the facility has YOUR oil, they have a very nice security interest if you don't pay.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Prhyme
Posts: 177
Incept: 2007-06-26
Chicago, IL
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is it true that you can continually roll over futures without ever taking delivery? if it is perhaps this is why speculation has indeed increased the price of oil. Mish posted about exactly this today: http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.c....
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"At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify ourselves against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to cross the ocean and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, could never by force take a drink from the Ohio, or make a t
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Bluntfacts
Posts: 693
Incept: 2007-10-09
Las Vegas, Nevada
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In Tuesday's Ticker, the last sentence was...
"Why are you tolerating being saddled with The Bill?"
Until people lose their bread and circuses, no one is going to do anything. Karl, you are smart guy and you tell the truth. But you are just one guy. Meanwhile, over the weekend, how many thousands went to their circuses (baseball games, NASCAR, Indy 500, whatever).
Seriously, until those people are wiped out, nothing is going to change. The sad part is I think Ben, Hank, and the rest of the lot KNOW this.
Meanwhile, the weekend Ticker has two great videos from CNBC. Anyone that watched them cannot say CNBC is all crap all the time.
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"Will someone come on TV and tell the truth about how bad it is". Jim Cramer August 2007. "We can change the focus to a soft blur; or sharpen it to crystal clarity" The Outer Limits 1964.
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Interested
Posts: 3019
Incept: 2007-10-07
SC
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