Cobra,

It's smart alecks like you who pave the way, and get mowed down so the sneakier smart people like me can get the benefit, without taking the risk. Thanks. I'm not being sarcastic.

Karl,

You are right on about the epidemic of ADD diagnosis in our schools. The teacher of my 1st grade boy recommended that we have him tested for ADD, as he wasn't paying attention and getting his work done (and this was at a PRIVATE Christian school). We had him evaluated by a social worker with experience in this area (not a drug-pushing medical doctor), including an IQ test.

The reason for his problems? Probably that he is just too damn smart (IQ of 140), and he was just bored with the mind-numbingly repetitive work. Of course, we already knew our son was smart, but we did not realize how far above his peers he was, nor how inadequate his instruction was. He is now excelling at a PUBLIC school, because he has an great teacher (a combination of experience and intelligence). A lower student to teacher ratio is probably a factor too.

If we wanted to pay our teachers enough that we were getting great teachers in the majority classrooms, we might not have this problem. If we just didn't have Big Pharma pushing these drugs, at least we would only have poorly educated students, who might still be able to use their intellect and imagination.

I have no doubt that 8 out 10 doctors would have recommended putting our son on drugs.

Quote:

Cobra,

It's smart alecks like you who pave the way, and get mowed down so the sneakier smart people like me can get the benefit, without taking the risk. Thanks. I'm not being sarcastic.

Boz, it wasn't that I wasn't sneaky enough, I just didn't care just as long as I wasn't going to get totally fried for it. I got some perverted joy in*****ing them off...

For example...
At some point they changed 5 lunch periods into 3 right as the school population was growing. You used to have to wait for 20-30 minutes in the lunch line. It was ok, because you could eat what you wanted and just pay for a milk and chips... but it did get old.

When I got my license and car I used to leave (wasn't supposed to), get food and come back and eat it in the lunch room. One day my assistant principal saw me with food from burger king. He asked where I got it and I looked at the burger king cup, burger king bag, burger king fries, burger king sandwich wrapper and then back and him and said "McDonald's" with a big **** eating grin on my face.

I got a Saturday suspension for it, but to me it was worth it. From that point on I ate out and timed my return for the end of lunch. Even when they had the "lockdown" after the walkout I still left...

Oh, and I organized the walkout...

We even made the news protesting the teacher strike. It was funny how the teachers went along with it until they found out we (I) were protesting against them getting a raise... That night the news ran it's little promo about a protest at a local school and my mother just stopped and turned to me and said "Why do I have a feeling you're involved?"

My cousins have gone through the school and I've seen the newer rule books and I can point out pages of rules that were probably directly written because of me...

Tx - in my neck of the woods the average teacher makes $70 k per year with full medical, 2 months vacation, and unbelievable retirement after 25 years. A veteran teacher of 25+ years with a master's degree makes over $110k. The per pupil expenditure in my SD is $12.5k per year. In a class of 22 students, that's $275k per classroom.

So - why the hell does anyone think the schools need more money ?

What the schools really need is to get rid of tenure so they can fire the lazy asses, the time-servers and the simply incompetent. They also need to get rid of seniority so they can reallocate people to their most logical use.

A true story. My ex brother-in-law with degrees in math and physics, who taught physics and astronomy for 20 years at the college level, took early retirement. Because he loved teaching he wanted to keep his hand in, so he took a year and got a stupid teaching certificate - you know, you don't need one to be a professor at a university but you do need one for K-12. Cost - 12k. It took him over 2 years to find a position in a local school and what did they have him teach ? General science and pre-algebra. The head of the science department had a degree in social studies and only taught biology for 2 periods a day. The physics teacher's degree was in history. Lesson - everything that's wrong with public schools is the way they use their resources. Public schools need to go away and be replaced by private education.

I agree with your rant about ADD/ADHD - the public school teachers wanted my son "treated" but I had seen him do well in Montessorri school - where the teachers are more able and better trained and he was free to pursue his interests. They didn't like it when I told them, "he just isn't too interested in spelling" LOL anyway he survived public education and eventually they were able to challenge him.

OTOH I have known some well to do caring parents who medicated their children and thought they did better - were better able to concentrate and socialize - I'm just grateful for my son's Montessorri school experience - to show me the difference a favorable envionment could make for him.

So many things i wish to comment on in this thread. I'll stick to only one: The cost associated with public education.
It is NOT the teachers, that is for sure, who are driving up the cost of public education. A good teacher will work at least 12 hours per day--often well into the night correcting papers and preparing for the next day's classroom activites. More and more, the current generation of teachers do not do this becasue the money stinks, they don't get much (any?)parental support, and they don't get any administrative support. The administrative objective is to get grades up, and the way to do that is to hand out higher grades. Period. They have no qualms about telling the teachers to do just that.
The cost to educate the "average" student is, as stated, around $11 or $12 Thousand per year.
However, the cost to educate a "special needs" student can easily run up to $200,000 or more per year. These are the little darlings who suffer from serious problems, both mental and physical. In all likelihood, they will never function independently, but the parents insist that they are entitled to a public education, in a classroom with the "average" students. Each child will have a "teacher", an aide, a reading specialist, someone to read for them, someone to write for them, and someone to counsel tham so they don't feel uncomfortable. There are also programs for the "average" students, so they can be counseled on how to adapt to have a special needs child in their rooms.
Are you starting to see why public education cost so much? One or two "special" needs students can easily cost more than a whole classroom of average kids.
In our part of the world the other big expense is busing. Every child is entitled to have a seat on a bus which runs every day. The fact that the average student wouldn't be caught dead on a bus is immaterial. The district must provide the bus. Mom and Dad duplicate this cost by driving junior to school (don't even get me started on the congestion issue, or the environmental issues), dropping him off right in front of the door, and picking him up at the appointed time. God help the parent who is late! Or god forbid junior would use that precious cell phone which mom and dad insist that he has to have so he can be contacted at any time, to call Mom and ASK if he could be picked up when she is done with her work and errands.
So what does this cost? Millions for an average district.
These two issues probably increase the cost of public education by 100% over the base cost to educate the average child.
And you can see, it isn't going into the pockets of the overworked, underpaid, and UNDERAPPRECIATED teachers....who not only must attempt to teach, but put up with juniors bull**** (the lunch room story above, for example) , and worse, the bull**** from the parents who insist junior is "special."

Cobra— what you describe yourself is called 'gifted' — I'm all too familiar with the antics of the gifted as I am a sister to one and a mother to a 7 year old gifted boy(God help me)

This pubic school has no 'real' gifted program but puts them all in the same class along with autistic kids (which they classify as 'gifted' ) and regular school kids —

wonder how that's gonna work out— NOT

What really gets me is that they try to get my son to teach to the other kids — he wants NOTHING to do with this as he has No Time for those that aren't as smart as him

Fact is, he is just craving NEW information and can't get enough of it — he has no patience for repeating what he already knows

TBear,
I'd gladly bus my kids to school if they didn't CHARGE ME for it!
—No free ride here

Off on tangent: Reason for school: Chicks and Cars....learn everything ya' need by seventh grade....

Tesla,

$70K sounds pretty good for a starting teacher. In Texas, the state minimum is in the mid-$30's (I don't know how good the pension is). I imagine the cost of living is higher in Delaware, but not by that much. I'm a firm believer that "you get what you pay for"; if you make salaries more competitive, more talented, intelligent applicants, who would otherwise go into more highly compensated fields, will force out the less qualified.

I didn't realize public school teachers got tenure, but it probably varies from state to state. I don't think they have tenure in Texas (probably because teachers unions are illeagal). Tenure for a teacher is a scary thought. No doubt, administrators should have the freedom to fire or reassign any teacher that is not performing.

Given what teachers have to put up with, the best undoubtedly deserve more than what they get, if they are effective, IMHO. To your point, paying the crappy ones more probably won't help.

Perhaps I'll have time later to get into the idea of making all schools private.

Great rant, Karl. I don't have any children, but you very nicely articulated my observations of these horrible Panhandle schools.

A while back I was talking to the pharmacist at one of the Navy clinics here. I asked her what was the number one drug that went out the window. I was shocked at her reply. RITALIN!!! These are high volume operations with huge budgets, so that has to be a very large number.

I went to a Catholic grade 1-8 school in Chicago, 1955 on. The boys, beginning in first grade, wore a white shirt, slacks, and the same color tie EVERY DAY. It was a no nonsense, no bull**** enviornment. The primary education I recieved there has served me well thoughout my life. Today?? I fear for these kids.

BTW, ALL of the school shooters, starting with Columbine, were on psychotrophic drugs, particularly SSRI's.

Had to laugh at so many TF'ers locked onto the ADD mention.

Are we dedicated parents, maybe some
Are we so concerned with medical research fidelity, eh... very few
The investment/economic implications of this are minor at best, though the
corruption points up an underlying problem with current business practice

Then I realized that we locked onto this because we are ADHD

This is an ADHD board

Now I understand Karl and the TF

Quote:

This is an ADHD board

You're only now just realizing this?

You throw in "prone to exhibiting obsessive and/or addictive tendencies" you've got the well-rounded TF profile (not speaking for myself of course ;)

Ranting about this stuff is the only sane thing to do besides trying to change it.

My wife and I have had the conversation about ADHD for 10 years or more and have always thought that it was the biggest travesty ever how people medicate their way out of everything.

I'm sure some kids need it, but IMO the percentages speak for themselves, there is no way that in a normal curve of people you'd need that much medication.

How the hell did we survive thousands of years before the medicine?

There is very little new under the sun, if modern society is that stressfull that we all need drugs to deal with it then maybe it's society that's ****ed up.

No one mentioned the amount of adults on antidepressants, there's and epidemic for you too.

Hell I'm depressed sometimes, the world is a tough place but on or two beers is about all I need to deal with it and that's rare.

Change Your Brain, Change Your Life:
Psychiatrist Daniel G. Amen offers advice for optimizing mental performance and eliminating negative behaviors.

Tuesday, June 10, 10:00 PM

WPBT/Channel 2 - CHANNEL 2

This is local PBS in Miami, check it for a listing at: http://www.pbs.org/tvschedules/index.htm....
Search for Amen.
How your environment and even the food you eat changes the make up of your brain.

I have read every ticker since you started and this is possibly the best. Your takes are spot on. Great work!!!

I'm continually struck by how politicized the schools in my area are, in every aspect. My daughter who graduated two years ago told me that her class's valedictorian cheated her way through high school, while her teachers turned a blind eye. She was, of course, the daughter of one of the more influential families.

Cheerleading works the same way. A few years ago, the regular cheerleading coach quit and the district hired a woman from outside the community. This poor woman caused quite a tempest by making merit-based decisions about assigning girls to varsity versus junior varsity. Quite a few girls who had been varsity cheerleaders throughout high school suddenly found themselves assigned to junior varsity for their senior year. The merit-based approach was, of course, an unwelcome surprise to many parents, and the new cheerleading coach quit after one year. The following year, the school had quite a bit of difficulty getting anyone to coach cheerleading. For anyone who wasn't intimately familiar with the politics of the district--and a consumate politician in their own right--the job was likely to lead to the unemployment line.

About 25 years ago I knew a man who was retired from the railroad who was teaching in a small Catholic school after his retirement. He had given up teaching, as a career, while he was still in his 20s. He said his main problem was that he had to look for another job every couple of years. That's about how long it took to***** off too many of the wrong people.

Anyone who goes into teaching needs to get clear on the fact that the purpose of the job is not to educate, but to suck ass.

I'm a little late to the party here... Just saw the video "The Bear Market Now And Forward: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGD0GemEi.... Great stuff

I don't remember the 2000 401K and IRA collapse referred to in this video. I'm worried now. IRA's are supposed to be non-marginable in a brokerage account. If a brokerage goes bust don't these assets stand-alone and remain separate from the business? 401K's have no such protection and this is why I completed an In-Service distribution to my brokerage. Am I screwed if the brokerage fails even if I have treasury bill money markets?

Quote:

The investment/economic implications of this are minor at best

How many people sitting in board rooms making business decisions, how many lenders, how many buyers/consumers, how many realtors, appraisers, etc made all their decisions while whacked out on something intended to "correct" a "chemical imbalance" in their brains?

"

Gen wrote..

"For my part I think she got her brains from a CrackerJack box as the "surprise toy"; there's nothing difficult to figure out here. You could run Mickey Mouse opposite McCain and he'd win in a landslide, for the simple reason that McCain hasn't figured out yet that "its the economy stupid" and he is doing exactly nothing in the policy initiative area to address the fraud that permeated the Bush Years.

Joe, Rad

too true

Kindergarten Grade 0 - Your son stares out the window. Disrupts my class by talking when he's not supposed to. Bothers others during quiet time. He has no self control. Does not pay attention. He needs to be disciplined.

Folks put me in a Catholic school. The nuns told my folks, 'He needs to be disciplined'. Whoa well needless to say, I had my knuckles smacked with a ruler. Slapped across the face many times. These nuns meant business. I was second in the class, forced to learn, pay attention without drugs. Just plain ole' discipline!

9 years of Catholic discipline can break any kid. Catholic education back in the 50's was very anti-Jew. I don't know why. In high school(public) I dated a Jewish girl. I still wonder what she's doing today. She was HOT!

The 60's gotta luv' 'em! Jumped ship over to public high school. Told my mom I thought the priest should have been born a nun not a man. She said OK to the public school system! I hated priests! I think they knew better than to **** with me. By the time, pubic hair was showing up on me, I could handle a gun from my hunting with dad and those ******s knew it. The pussy altar boys fell victim to the ****ing priests!

Sophomore in high school(public) who gave book reports on Citadel of Chaos by Cornelius Carl Veith and Your Country At War by Charles Lindberg, Sr.
I was accused of being a member of the John Birch Society, anti-semetic, Nazi, Communist, anti-American, etc. Some teachers and fellow students said I was a radical. The year was 1965. WTF? After 1 year in public school, 9 years in Catholic school and Sophomore year back in public school, I was a some kind of anti-establishment type. Many, many lines in the sand were drawn in the 60's.

Well, huge doses of hormones and puberty (natually induced, no medication, yet) sent me running to the fastest car, wild clothes, drugs, rock & roll, and beautiful, loose women. I was in heaven.

All of a sudden, the tide turned, I was someone people wanted to talk with. Chicks wanted to take a ride in my car.

BOOM! Uncle Sam drafted me. **** me. I hadn't felt this much control and discipline since grades 1-9. I survived. Thats all I got to say about the USA Army. I don't want to get an invoice in the mail from all the shananigans. The USA Army has alot of money to spend during wartimes.


GI Bill and college(state) alot of fun as by now I'm 22 surrounded by 18-20 yr old babes. MBA from a (private) college. You know the rest of the story. Job...recession...Job...recession...Business...recession...what again?

VA doctor says I have ADD. Flash Back to Grade 0. Maybe he's right. But, my treatment since Grade 0 has been discipline not ritalin. Rhyme? WTF?

So, I take a Xanax once in awhile to control my freakouts when in an enclosed space. Why? The nuns had a habit of locking you in a room you could not get out, I hate nuns! And, then when the USA Army told me to get into a foxhole, well you get the picture.

Welcome to the Ticker Forum. Now lets make some money!

I have been looking at a few of these old tickers and they all seem to be linked to todays... something got broken in the move it appears.

Does anyone remember what the ticker was that had the simple table of home appreciation versus worker income.. at this point I should probably make my own but if anyone knows offhand ... I can't even recall a key word to search on.