Tractor supply store has all kinds of water tanks, heaters and other stuff for storing water. http://www.tractorsupply.com, search for water tank.

1500 gallon: http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/....

Jotapay, I also wanted to say--and I'm bragging about my kids here, so please excuse me--you'll find it's not too difficult to plumb in a pump to integrate your cisterns with the house plumbing. (Since you mention the no-electricity thing is an advantage of rainwater collection, maybe you're not going that route.)

It sounds like you plan to rely on gravity for water flow. I'm also curious about this. I did some reading on the gravity-flow idea, and idea--which would be a problem for me anyway, unless I built platforms for the tanks--and it seems like I recollect that you wouldn't get much pressure. On the other hand, how much pressure does a person need, as long as the water is running?

What I'm bragging about is, my daughter plumbed in a new shallow-well pump when she was only 18. I was too busy with work and told her I couldn't get to it for a couple of days, so she did it herself.

I like the idea Johnny_crab mentioned of having a hand pump available. We would need this to get the water uphill, if we didn't have electricity for the shallow-well pump. People used to have hand pumps right in their kitchens.

The solution--which I think would work if your well-casing is too small for two intake pump lines--would be to run your hand-pump line to your intake line and put shut-offs on both lines. Shut off the line to the regular pump, and open the line to the hand pump when you needed to use that. Vice-versa, when you wanted to use the electric pump.

Jotapay, it's interesting to hear that the algae problem is so easily resolved, especially as hot as it gets in Texas. Sounds like frozen lines aren't a problem there, either. Around here, above-ground lines would be quite an issue. In fact, below-ground lines can be an issue around here.

I would recommend stocking up with a nice collection of books. You will need books to identify what plants are safe to use and eat. Instructions on repairing things or how to preform simple medical procedures.

Here is a list of some good books that will become very useful incase of a economic disaster and survival scenerio.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det....

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det....

http://www.amazon.com/Foragers-Harvest-I....

Thanks for the links nullzero [smile].

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Jotapay, it's interesting to hear that the algae problem is so easily resolved, especially as hot as it gets in Texas. Sounds like frozen lines aren't a problem there, either. Around here, above-ground lines would be quite an issue. In fact, below-ground lines can be an issue around here.

Yes, the coldest that it gets here in Austin is around 25 degrees F or so, and then only every five years or so. It hasn't gotten below 29 yet here so far this year. A large tank will not freeze here.

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Jotapay, I also wanted to say--and I'm bragging about my kids here, so please excuse me--you'll find it's not too difficult to plumb in a pump to integrate your cisterns with the house plumbing. (Since you mention the no-electricity thing is an advantage of rainwater collection, maybe you're not going that route.)

What I'm bragging about is, my daughter plumbed in a new shallow-well pump when she was only 18. I was too busy with work and told her I couldn't get to it for a couple of days, so she did it herself.

Sounds great, congratz. I do reside on a 3-4% incline on the top of a limestone hill. The largest reservoirs will be placed on the uphill side of the house. 1500-5000 gallon cisterns will push water from a spigot located at the bottom of the cistern into a hose just fine with that amount of pressure from the top.

In order for me to legally integrate the cistern into the home's plumbing and city water supply, I would need to pull a permit and do all sorts of things to make sure that the rainwater didn't back into the city water. That will be step two.

Great info on carbon filters, thanks.
Even though I am on "town water" I purchased a 110 gallon plastic tank that holds a backup supply. Our town nearly ran out of water last summer, and the clowns who run the water system are clueless about getting people to conserve, and I expect one day it will just "quit." I got it from one of those tank places in TX (they all seem to be down there) and had it shipped to me in VA. This tank is 24" dia x 64" high and has a 8" lid. I set it in a corner of my garage. It is strictly an emergency supply and is not connected to the household water. I filled it with town water which is fairly heavily chlorinated, and since it is not exposed to sunlight, the water is as fresh as when I put it in. I run all my drinking/cooking/tea/tea water through a carbon filter to remove the chlorine.
For apartment dwellers, try a couple of the 7 gallon RV water "cubes" that Walmart sells for about $10. They can be set on a countertop (if you can lift 50#)and have a spigot. I keep a couple of these also for emergencies.
Water or lack thereof is the most underrated and least prepared for emergency items, so it pays to look at your own circumstances.

Jota...what's a "permit"? I am not familiar with the concept.

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what's a "permit"?

Permits are for folks that don't have Allodial Title. We can thank the 14th Amendment and all of the various commerce laws that were derived from it for that.

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Jota...what's a "permit"? I am not familiar with the concept.

You're lucky then, lol. :-) In Austin we have to pull a permit with the city for all kinds of work on our home, any electrical work which requires turning off the electricity to the house (which subsequently requires bringing the house fully up to code, which could cost tens of thousands for my extremely well-built 1950s home), any addition to the structure of the building (even an awning), or any serious plumbing work.

/sarcasm
I just *LOVE* being taxed and regulated for the use of my own property. >:-(

Jotapay, in my area we do all but the most obvious exterior work on the sneak.

A few years ago I hired a carpenter friend to do some interior work for me. When the snoops from the city asked why he was at my house all the time, he told them we were having an affair.

We don't have any kind of public water service here, and no permit is required to work on your own plumbing, as far as I know. Everyone here seems to do their own plumbing. When I first moved here and didn't know how to do plumbing, my first major plumbing repair job was done by someone I actually was having an affair with.

The electrical service here is also weird. The area was originally set up to be a resort community. That was over thirty years ago, but each house still has a pedestal, and some of the older ones actually have an outlet you can plug your main electrical line into. In the newer ones, the main line is wired into the pedestal, but you can still shut off the main line at the pedestal. Thus, it is possible to install a new breaker box without anyone's being the wiser. If you want to shut off power to your main, you simply step out the back door and throw the breakers on the pedestal.

No one is astonished, or even interested, if you shut off all power at the pedestal. If anyone asked, you could say you were having an affair and want to be extra-sure the lights were off, so no one would find out.

The lack of any kind of city services whatsoever, mixed blessing though it is, makes it virtually impossible for the city to enforce most permit requirements.

Personnel from the city DO snoop and ask a lot of questions. This has made them universally despised. Residents here have always been astonishingly unified in evading and subverting city ordinances.

Sorry to get chatty on this one. I can pretty well imagine what it would take to bring a 1950s house up to electrical codes: Rip out all the interior walls and replace all the wiring.

Codes are not always and everywhere a bad idea. It's a bad idea to do your own work, if you don't know what you're doing, and codes (and good books) can be helpful. Codes that are intended to force you to hire work done, instead of doing it yourself, or that require prohibitively expensive upgrades, seem to exist to provide licensed professionals and governmet workers with employment--or to force you to buy a new house from your local real estate developer, and finance it through your local bank.

If governments wanted to be useful, their codes people could act as educators and advisors, and you could call them up and ask for advice. Such as, why does the wiring book you bought in 2003 say to use 14/2 wiring for 110, but the wiring book that came out in 2005 says you should use 12/3 (or maybe it's 12/4 these days)? That's certainly been puzzling me. Is it just overkill, or what?

I sort of need a holding tank because my well water is full of methane. It's odorless and colorless so don't laugh. When it comes out of the tap it's bubbling like a carbonated beverage. The bubbles disappear in 30 seconds but the buildup of gas when it's enclosed causes strange behavior in the pipes. Knocking, banging and possibly difficulty adjusting hot/cold balance. Right now the water goes straight from the well into a pressure tank. I'd like to have the well pump first fill an open top holding tank, and have the pressure tank pull from the bottom where the methane first disappears.

A lot of rules we now have, in my opinion should be advisory. For example, you could get a certification that you were Sarbannes-Oxley compliant, but you don't have to. The market would price in the benefit and subsequent increase in your stock price. All the people whining about Sarbox could then shut up. Same with building codes. If your house isn't up to the recommended code standards that will lower its value if you try to sell it. The market provides motivation to have your property in tip top shape for sale.

Boz,

Find someone who does waterproofing from the Los Angeles area.

We have a methane pocket downtown near Wilshire and the specs call for special meters, membranes and venting. I know it's a little late now that your tank is in, but it can't hurt what with that colorless and odorless explosive gas making your well into a seltzer bottle.

Depending on what kinds of things one has to prepare for- one of the most fascinating articles I read in college was the study of the patterns of the early American Pioneers who survived the best. Given that their patterns were such that they traveled --the groups that fared best were the ones that had an average of 12-17 people in the group; and no less. The number of 12-17 was the major factor in the stabilization of the group in order to survive.

Currently, one other factor that I think is advisable- is to be geographically isolated, if need be, to where you have some control, ie an island, etc that can have some gage as to what impact from the outside in the event that everything goes nuts. And from within, create a very strong community.

It worked for the people in "Lost", the crazy and addictive TV show.
(I couldn't help myself; I've been watching all 4 seasons the past few days and checking TF during their 30 sec commercials)

Years ago I read somewhere that, at the time of the westward migration of the pioneers, the requirements for successfully getting to your destination and surviving after you got there were well established and well known.

I've often wondered if outfitters and other interested parties provided some sort of manual for this. It would include how much food per person to transport, what kind of tools, firearms, clothing, seeds, and skills you would need, etc.

My impression is that the pioneers typically departed from Missouri in early spring, with the objective of crossing the mountains (barely) before winter set in. If your timing was a little off, you could wind up like the Donner Party--trapped in the mountains in winter.

Wish we could dig up some specific info on the known requirements for pioneering.

How to Prepare . . . .

Here is the list for January from Code Name Insight.

B~

http://codenameinsight.com/Monthly%20Che....

Maybe this has been mentioned or maybe it is obvious, but for those who plan to stay put somewhere, especially in a city, GET TO KNOW YOUR NEIGHBORS. Find out which ones are online with the idea of survival. I wouldn't bring it up until you get to know them ... eventually it WILL come up.

Cooperation and forming small communities to guard property, exchange resources and skills will be extremely important. But the key is to know who to trust and have some sort of governing council made up of people who demonstrate intelligence and savvy. Eventually, neighboring communities can ban together and share more resources. Some will be food gatherers and/or farmers, some will have technical skills, some will just have brute strength, but everyone will have a role.

One of the first things that is likely to happen is that utilities will go off. Either by terrorism, lack of materials/fuel or because people walk off the job. Communities that come together like this will find resources and skill to get some power and water treatment back online.

Gasoline will be available but it will have to be rationed. I would imagine that only a few people will be allowed to drive unless they are leaving for some reason. Gas stations in your immediate neighborhood need to be locked down once they are abandoned and mechanical pumps rigged to get gas out of the ground.

These are just a few things that come to mind, but the most important thing being forming protective communities right away. Take inventory of what you have and what you can get, find out who can do what and work together. I would not expect the police, national guard or army to be of much use except maybe in the early going.

That January list ... sheesh, if I got that done before June, I'd feel accomplished!

Damn, I'm a wimp.

N/

apart from being out of debt, when I get down to it I need 5 things to ensure a fairly comfortable existence:

1) a good knife (I have quite a few);
2) a good axe (I have a few);
3) a Kelly Kettle (burns very little to boil water);
4) a Thermos flask(s) (keeps water boiling for hours - sterilising it without loss - or food cooking for hours);
5) a means of lighting a fire (flint - I can knap flint - magifying glass, etc).

With a knife and an axe I can make a home, trap, kill and clean animals and fish. With a Kelly Kettle I can cook and also heat a shelter. With thermos flasks I can cook food, provide safe water to drink, and keep the smell of cooking out of my local environment.

Everything and anything else is a plus.

I also have a ruby ceramic sharpening stone that will last many lifetimes, but that's an optional extra.

A clay flower pot can give you a perfectly adequate contained source of heat for cooking (at their best when 2/3rds full of ash from burnt straw - a classic hibachi), and a metal car hub cap can give you a very serviceable cooking pot.

PS. Psquared has it right, your community is essential. If it's rural they already know the score, so don't presume to teach your grandmother to suck eggs. If you aren't already a part of your Community, unless very lucky, sorry, but you are already years too late.

That thermos application is very interesting -

Any recommendations on good backpacks to carry a good amount of gear in the outdoors.

Boz,

Where I live the water is sweet and cold out of the ground. But the well can be drawn down quickly and is only used for household consumption. The irrigation ditch covers all agricultural uses so preserving the well was the biggest concern.

1. We installed a brand new pump at the bottom of the well.
2. Dug a new cistern to replace the one that was installed in 1921 with concrete.
3. Installed a new plastic 2300 gallon water cistern. 2 - 18" access holes. Vent pipe installed to 6' above ground. Screen and trap at top to eliminate access.
4. Installed a storage tank in basement of each house.
5. Installed new piping from cistern to each house at 7' depth.
6. Each house has "on demand" system with full pressure pump off the storage tanks.
7. Each house will flow at kitchen sink without pumping, gravity feed from cistern. Approx. 2 gpm per minute at faucet.
8. Each house has emergency storage of 200 gallons.
9. Pump operates one hour a day. Pumps approx. 450 gallons per day which supplies 2 houses with domestic use.
10. Any excess that overflows goes into garden areas for watering.
Installed the entire system myself and it has been working without much more than a frozen pipe this year for 7 or 8 years. Not one problem. Of course I can give courses on most of this work including operating trackhoes.

Your methane problem could be solved with an enclosed cistern. Any chance you have elevation drop from the well?

Nullzero,

I have a dealership for Solar backpacks. They include a batterypack and adapters to use with any batteries you want to charge. Cellphones, laptops, flashlights, etc.

While you walk your item recharges. Set your pack down for lunch. It keeps working. I have the URL at work for the product. Will try to remember to post it here when I return to work tomorrow.

edit: found the url. http://www.aeesolar.com/catPDFs/low/20-P.... page 3 of the pdf.

Real cool item. Retail $239 or $249. Wholesale cost for me is about $140-50.

My son wants me to order one for him this week.

Ribbit's mention of making a flower pot hibachi interested me. Here's a link on how to make one--in case you are like me and the "how to" part wasn't obvious:

http://bbq.about.com/od/grillinghelp/ss/....

That does sound interesting. Thanks for the link Sharon. Great for entertaining. Each person gets their own pot and tray......

pile of skewers, cut up vegetables and meat. cook your own ka-bobs right at your lawn chair.

Awesome table setting at a picnic.

If I ever have another reason to celebrate.............