>Genesis

The human body is an elaborate feedback system that tries to maintain homeostasis. But the state variable that is used to control food consumption isn't the calories go down your throat, since there isn't an real way for the body to measure that. Its how full your food makes you feel. Obviously this is somewhat of a simplification, but its the basis behind gastric surgery that makes people feel more full with less food. Fattening food works in the opposite direction.

'Calories in > calories burned' is good enough explanation for why one person is fat, but it is not the right explanation as to why there are many fat Americans. Individual variation trumps out the small factors - there are people with freakish metabolisms that drink sugared soda by the gallon and tons of unhealthy snacks and are still as thin as a rail. But a small factor on a large population can have a large aggregate effect.

Genesis,

The law of thermodynamics is not changed. However, over-processed food (and foods with certain chemicals) have shown to cause the metabolism to slow down (calories burned).

The others are right -- the obesity problem has much more to do with 'cheap' foods tending to be more unhealthy -- especially fast foods (both from restaurants and microwave-based).

It is much more expensive to have a healthy, balanced diet (which contributes to not being overweight). Organic foods, fresh fruits and vegetables, and good meats cost more then prepared food.

Throw in the fact that the poor part of the population are less likely to exercise at all (gym memberships cost money, etc), they get the double wammy.

Genesis,

It doesn't undo the second law of thermodynamics. It just says that some people burn it and some people store it.

>Genesis

I'm not trying to argue about the fundamental cause of why one person gets fat, I'm trying to argue about why Americans are, in aggregate, overweight. Its an anecdote/statistic dichotomy. Changes in the population as a whole are based on things that effect everyone, no matter how little. Its a lot more accurate to blame the epidemic of obesity on the difficulty to walk places in American cities than on a lack of willpower.

to elaborate a bit, Genesis's point of view is a lot better way to look at variations within the population than it is to look at the aggregate data of the population as a whole. One person gets fat because they choose to eat hamburgers and soda instead of cooking a healthy dinner, and choose to drive places instead of walking to get some exercise. A million get fat because hamburgers and soda cost much less than cooking healthy dinners, and our suburbs are built to be drivable, but not walkable.

Guys, this is bull****.

Look, you may FEEL "not full" but the fact of the matter is that consuming food is a VOLUNTARY act. It goes in the piehole as a consequence of your fingers inserting it in your mouth.

Irrespective of how full you feel (or don't feel) stuffing your piehole is a VOLUNTARY act, and if you consume fewer calories than you burn, you will lose weight.

Quote:

A million get fat because hamburgers and soda cost much less than cooking healthy dinners

And my post was meant to convey that this is false.
All sorts of meals can be prepared with rice, beans and other vegetables for much less then people spend at fast food places.

The fast food is over processed chemical garbage. People eat it not because they are poor, but because they are either ignorant, lazy or both.

Look back at some pictures taken during the depression of the 1930's. How many obese people do you see? Anybody see any obese people in the concentration camps?

Edit -
As Gen said "if you consume fewer calories than you burn, you will lose weight."

Obesity and denial are each other's hand maiden.

Nearly every obese person i've ever come across had a list of rationalizations a mile long in an attempt to explain away why they AREN'T eating the amount of food actually contributing to their obesity problem.

Oh yes they certainly ARE eating way too much.

As a once popular radio personality (Bill Balance) once famously and humorously coined to his callers: 'Sir, you DO NOT have overactive hormones contributing to your obesity problem. You HAVE an overactive dinner fork contributing to your obesity'.

Says it all.

For me, spending a career as a Paramedic busting my back dead-lifting the gurneys, loaded with 500# patients, day after day, into the back of my rig gives me just a lil' bit of experience and authority on this topic. Then, about 1 in 8 patients were medically obese, That was 25 years ago. The problem is now exponentially worse as nearly 1 in 3 patients is medically obese. Now, nearly every region in the country has a 'Bariatric' ambulance available on short notice. That is a rig specially equipped to handle patients in excess of 500# and can accomodate patients up to 1000#. Fitted with doublewide gurneys, and electric hoist devices, functioning as if designed to corral large farm animals. In fact, many hospitals have a standing contract with the local municipal ZOO to handle CATSCAN's for patients too big to fit in the hospital's own machine. Literally, a device intended for an ELEPHANT adopted for use on humans. A pathetic commentary is contained within right there.

Something nearly unheard of 25 years ago.

But to the real devil in the details about this that directly feeds into today's ticker topic. That being, we have a virtual tsunami of obesity related health problems soon to completely SINK the health care system.

This aspect is itself a whole side-issue apart from factoring in the financial impossibilities of the economic system as it currently exists. Yet, all in of itself, the obesity aspect is a demographic health care nuclear bomb that will only experience 'binary amplification' when combined with the country's financial meltdown.

This country is about to experience a virtual parabolic blowout of patients with obesity related conditions, diabetes, coronary disease, strokes, permanent disabilities, you name it. A tsunami of sick and sicker patients that our country does not have the resources to address, not to mention even a general widespread concept of how immense the problem is.

This WILL indeed alter the entire standard of living in many various ways when you apply this deluge of sick and unproductive patients on top of the demographics of the baby boom generation swamping the social and medical service system.

An older and sicker population on the whole that will entirely change the face of what America now is and will in the future become.

It never ceases to amaze me the excuses people make for being fat.

>Genesis

I'm not disagreeing with you at all - we are talking about different things. One person gets fat because they shovel more calories down their throat than they burn. Its bull**** to try to avoid personal responsibility for being overweight by claiming 'McDonalds made me fat', or any of the other things that I've been talking about.

Regardless of the environment, virtually anyone who puts enough effort into it can avoid becoming obese. But that doesn't mean that one can completely neglect the role of environmental factors that contribute to the total number of obese people is a whole different story.

Quote:

How many obese people do you see? Anybody see any obese people in the concentration camps?

It's also important to note that there is much anecdote evidence that those who actually survived the concentration camps long enough to be liberated have gone on to experience a much longer life span than normal.

As a country, we really are OVER eating ourselves to death. No doubt about it.

Musashi,

Many probably agree with your post! Having a farm complete with bulk inventories and live poultry, I only go out to eat once a week or less with friends for a $1.75 salad bar cause it is cheap!

Many people don't "like" beans and rice and veggies... They call those things "what "food" eats."

Further, Mickey D's garbage food digests like comfort food AND is to some, very addicting... If a SINGLE person COULD only eat needed calories a day eating garbage food... three dollar menu items all day... or say three-four 75 cent hot dogs at the local gas station, then it may be much cheaper than cooking at home in many cases. Healthy? Don't think so.

The discussion of the "expense" of healthy food vs. McDonalds is one that always set's me off. Number one, the news talks about it as if it's true, which if I was a second generation single mom and never had a proper example I would likely believe and act accordingly.

It makes me angry, because it's such BULL****, and I would expect those spouting it to do a little research prior to passing it on. I.e. I can feed a family of four with a $12 Roast, $3 Carrots, $1 potatos one evening, and then a few days later use the left overs for a great beef stew. $16/2 meals, $8/meal. We actually have a family of three, and if we're on the road and decide to let Jr. have his McDonalds fix we can't get through the drive through for less than $20. One horse-**** meal, which they admit has perservatives that has this "unfortunate" side effect of stimilating hunger in humans. What a load of crap.

What makes me angry is that people intelligent enough to know better and in the public eye continue to tell the poor working mother that the most economical way she can feed her family is fast-food or TV Dinners. (OK -dating myself there.) She may be responsible for her choices and I'm not saying they're to blame, but it's the news for ****'s sake, investigate a little further and tell the truth if you're going to discuss what those in poverty have to/should do.

Deejunk - always like your posts, I didn't see this one b4 I posted mine... but here in the midwest a good salad bar costs around $8-$10/person, and a hot dog at the gas station is usually $1.50-$2.00. I didn't think about the dollar menu though, lol... you might have me there. Maybe the value meals aren't such a value, huh? :)

Just for fun I should add - my post was delayed from what I read due to stepping outside in approx 20 degree below zero weather for a smoke... health Goddess I am not...

Quote:

Obesity and denial are each other's hand maiden.

Nearly every obese person i've ever come across had a list of rationalizations a mile long in an attempt to explain away why they AREN'T eating the amount of food actually contributing to their obesity problem.

Oh yes they certainly ARE eating way too much.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Well said!

Deejunk
I also eat a lot of meat and raw fish.
Just trying to make the point that junk food and processed / prepared food has a lot of chemicals in it.
Even eating steak, it still is cheaper then eating out at junk food places, providing one knows where to buy the stuff.
Not even talking about the farm.
There are places that buy surplus food and resell it. All top restaurant quality. I can buy Italian style roast beef, prosciutto, good mid western angus beef, etc in 10 to 20 lb cuts for less then 2 bucks a pound. Olive oil by the gallon. Open to the public. Eat like a king for pennies.
The funny thing is that I eat rice and beans because I like them. I can afford to buy things in the super market, but the quality is not all that good.
I guess it helps having been the de facto cook in my sailing days.

Genesis wrote:

"Being fat is really quite simple.

Calories in > calories burned."

And there you have it. Elementary school mathematics, yets folks spend millions on diets and gurus and the rest of the nonsense. Food addiction is one tough S.O.B., just like any other addiction.

I could embed video clip after video clip of folks at food handout centers through out the USA just in 2008. NONE of them look anything like the skin and bones people typically shown in the poorest parts of Africa; in fact most of them look over-fed. Thus the enabling continues and my guess is most of those folks produce ZERO in GDP.

So should we let them starve? Of course not. I like what Genesis wrote: shelter, meals, safety, but with a price. W-O-R-K. Perhaps hard work. So hard that when one gets home, one just wants to lay down and sleep.

And if Bluebird is the Bluebird I think she is, talk about a coincidence. So let me throw out a test question to Bluebird. Do you know who Dorothy B. is? If the answer is yes, she looks well-fed. Am I wrong?

Sorry, I don't recall Dorothy B.

Mus - any connections in the MN/WI area?? Personally I currently set the day-to-day price on beef at $4/lb... they want $3.60 or so for a pound of lean ground beef, but cuts of beef are going for $4/lb, and they've frequently been marking down steaks etc. over the past 4 months to $4/lb when they only have a day or two left to sell. My guess is the avg consumer just ASSUMES ground beef is cheapest, so the majority just buy that and don't check out the other prices?

Anyhow, the family loves their meat here, so I'd love to find a way to buy quality in bulk. Although, we're not doing the Beef Wellington this year for Christmas dinner:(, I love making it but we're going with the Prime Rib instead, little more economical when the inlaws show up and we're serving 12-15 people.

I'm dying to know who "Dorothy B." is now, is this a private reference or one the rest of us should get?

Bluebird

No problem. There is a local poster on an unrelated forum with the same screen name as you. She helps the homeless.

And I like what Amyo is saying. Basically Economics 101. Frequently, the local stores here offer meats at prices lower then prepared ground meats. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if so-called London Broil is $1.99 a pound, just buy it and GRIND it yourself. It is so simple, even with a 50 year old meat grinder my mother used back in Michigan.

Amyo

My last post tonight.

Dorothy B. is a homeless person that appears in the Citizens Participation portion of our local City Council meetings.

No, not me. I have never appeared in a city council meeting.