I don't see a strawman argument there Downrange.

I'm very familiar with formal logic and debate and argument and that wasnt a strawman. Which false position did I attribute to you then argue against ?

I said, and still say, it seems to me you've set up a false choice and your labels are too extreme. Ordering the world so harshly is how tyrants behave, and later is the excuse for extreme action against the ones who aren't "with us."

Funny how you responded with yet another little-Saddam wish to ban ppl, LOL. Good grief, switch to decaf.

British, In my opinion you are just repeating a lie. Nothing personal.

Krezlune, I am not repeating a lie , name one thing that voting has done for you personally .

British is not lying or repeating a lie. To vote is to believe in and perpetuate the lie, the myth, that our republic even exists anymore.

Why is this flaming bull**** tolerated on a forum where the host openly supports various political candidates?

Stinky wrote..

Why is this flaming bull**** tolerated on a forum where the host openly supports various political candidates?

Earlier Stinky wrote..

If you don't vote, you don't earn the right to bitch.

Nobody's flaming you. You're just being told in no uncertain terms that you are part of the problem.

You are no better than the sandwich shop owner that pays the mafia goon in exchange for "protection". Only, you'll get no "protection". You are encouraging the continued participation in a system that is busted and rigged against you and us.

You are advocating the further tightening of the federal noose on common people who simply want to mind their own business, live out their lives, and be secure in their privacy and property.

You are advocating participating in a system which seeks to further quell individual rights and expand the rights of the state to do ever-deeper dives into your and my wallet.

So, sorry if you feel like you're being "flamed" and your little feelers got hurt, but I suggest you gain an understanding of just where we are and where we're headed.

Flaming was used as an adjective, not a verb. But thank you for another fantastic long-winded blowhardy rant.

Sure thing. And thanks for doing your doody by getting out there and voting, citizen. Papers please?

I am so confused. I thought he was saying I was flaming someone. I had no intent of flaming anyone. I just think that not voting is accomplishing exactly what the powers that be want to accomplish. They choose the candidates that you don't vote for. At least if we got involved we have a chance. Without any participation we have none. If you read my reasons for not voting above, you can see I am somewhat of a hypocrite on the subject. I believe, since I live in California in a 90% liberal area my time spent voting will be a waste and could even lead to my being targeted in the future if the **** hits the fan. Besides that, the last time I had to do jury duty I lost approximately 20 grand on some stupid ass minor thing because of a lost opportunity. I am not doing that again if I can help it.

WOW, Drudge is linking to the cover of Newsweak!!!!

When a lefty rag like Newsweak bites their own you know the dems and Obama are Sucking Gas BIG TIME.

No wonder so many want you voters to SIT AT HOME on your hands in their attempt TO TRICK you to steal the election FOR THE Left.

Krzelune, given the fact that he says the word "flaming" was an adjective and not a verb... i.e., he doesn't believe anyone's "flaming" him (verb), he takes the responses here as "flaming bull****" in the adjective sense... in other words, rather than respond objectively, he just spews rhetorical nonsense.

To your point:

Quote:

I just think that not voting is accomplishing exactly what the powers that be want to accomplish. They choose the candidates that you don't vote for. At least if we got involved we have a chance.

I get what you are saying... however, even showing up to write in "Daffy Duck" is lending credence to the current system. Why show up at all and contribute to the "record voter turnout" when you know that all of the silly write-ins will never make it onto any MSM outlet?

The message I'm talking about, and talking to others about sending, is not the kind of message that's going to be discussed anytime soon by the bought-and-paid-for MSM. I'm talking about non-verbal feedback directly to the heart of the machine, as a first step in letting them know that we know who they are, who they stand for, and they no longer have our consent to govern.

Participate and continue to be a part of the problem, or accept reality, withdraw, and begin to think out the next steps.

Quote:

No wonder so many want you voters to SIT AT HOME on your hands in their attempt to trick you to steal the election for the Left.

Fine, go vote one last time. Make that vote count! In couple of years when Romney turns out to be GWB the 3ed and the country is still being run into the toilet by bankers, remember that a few people warned you that are participating in and legitimizing a farcical democratic system. Vote as many times as you can for Team red! They won't **** up like team blue!

Personally I'd rather see Romney in office just to reduce the number black flash mobs. I don't expect him to actually govern different and I'm sure as hell not going to endorse his evil behavior by voting for him. I'm done voting for criminals and scumbags. I'm done with our cult of democracy. Next time I vote it's going to be for an honest leader who's not controlled by the god state.

So by all means go vote. Tell everyone to vote. Vote Obama out. Don't forget to do some real voting while you're at it. Get on those Juries and Nullify bad laws. Hit the state where we still have real power. Serve on juries and dispense real justice.

'I just think that not voting is accomplishing exactly what the powers that be want to accomplish. '

No your voting is allowing them to believe that the illusion of having a say is still the staus quo. And thats all it is, an illusion. They are throwing you a bone to make you shut the **** up, that is all. Aww gee your party lost? Better luck next time.

Krezlune said " They choose the candidates " Well if you actually can go so far as to make that statement what the **** are you voting for. Whoever they choose as acceptable and not who you choose? Is that free choice?

For all those who think voting still matters - why, exactly, do dictators hold elections (even tho they rig the results) ?

That's right, they hold sham elections precisely to give THE APPEARANCE of consent.

The only difference, at the moment, is that some of you still think you have real choices.

I sure won't vote for Obama - Holder and his obstructionism is just one big reason. Romney would replace Holder and probably at least put in someone who'd stop the New Black Panthers from their nonsense.

However, the reason I can't vote for Romney is contained in a quote by C. S. Lewis I've had framed on my wall for years -

Quote:

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

I'll leave you to decide who you think is the robber baron and who is the moral busybody. I personally don't want to live under either, and I won't give legitimacy to thugs in white collars, no matter how they present themselves.

None of you non-voters has answered the question why you would not make your dissenting voice known by writing in the name of a non-candidate.

In my own little corner of the world, I see every day the impact that focused advocacy can make in bringing about change. Having worked night and day for months at a time (in the field of law) on various issues, and having won a fair number of victories in cases that the smart money said I couldn't win, I have nothing but disdain for those people who sit back and whine about their impotency. Give me a frickin' break. If you cant get behind any of the candidates, get off your ass and stir up support for a non-party candidate.

Quote:

None of you non-voters has answered the question why you would not make your dissenting voice known by writing in the name of a non-candidate.

Because, the moment you do that, you've justified the winner whoever it may be. By playing 'the game', you agree to the rules...once you vote, you agree that whether your guy, or the other guy wins, you've participated in the system as designed and therefore, have no real reason (I won't say right, but it's pretty close) to complain about the results. They require participation in the game, for their continued illusion of 'representation'. They do not represent me, nor can they claim to because of my lack of vote.

Quote:

I have nothing but disdain for those people who sit back and whine about their impotency. Give me a frickin' break. If you cant get behind any of the candidates, get off your ass and stir up support for a non-party candidate.

No one is elected to positions of power in this country who's not approved by the god state. When actual non approved candidates try to run the media rips them apart. Look at what's happened Ron Paul the last few times he's run. In the "conservative" media Ron Paul might as well have been the second coming of Adolph Hitler.

When you control the media, you control the sheep. When you control the sheep you give the illusion of choice and tell them their free... and they believe it. All your arguing this or that is meaningless in the face of a media telling the sheep that you're crazy, racist, or evil. We live in presence of the greatest propaganda system ever created and most people don't even realize it's there.

When the game is rigged, the only why to win is not to play the game at all. What a solution? Take the sheep out of the equation. Return to only allowing mortgagee free property owners to vote.

Redwolf Said

"Return to only allowing mortgagee free property owners to vote."

even if mortgage free they do NOT own the property if they are being extorted through TAXATION which is just another tool in the arsenal of those who control you. I personally do not think for a minute that your vote is completely anonymous and if only done by mortgage free property owners it would be much easier to keep track of who voted what because the percentage of mortgage free property owners is low.

Quote:

I personally do not think for a minute that your vote is completely anonymous and if only done by mortgage free property owners it would be much easier to keep track of who voted what because the percentage of mortgage free property owners is low.

Hey it was good enough for the founders. The whole point is reduce the voting population to people who are less sheep like. You'll get better leaders that way.

History shows that being a non-voter has terrible consequences.

Stinkydrunk, resorting to Appeal to Emotion?

It should be the law that there is a 'none of the above' option that, if it gets the largest percentage of the vote, forces all new candidates and another election in less than a month.

Stinky drunk, dude they were not non voters they were prisoners and victims of mass genocide . And they supported Hitler until it was too late to take back their support.

Redwolf Said :
"The whole point is reduce the voting population to people who are less sheep like. You'll get better leaders that way."

How can you have better leaders if they are bought and paid for and the only way they get close to the point of becoming leaders is if they have good blackmail material in their closet?

Stinkydrunk, are those jews in a concentration camp? If so, voting got them there. During the 20s and 30s all political parties spent most of their time blaming the jews for each economic disaster that Germany was being put through by their elected governments(Middle man minorities make great scape goats). Hitler himself held at least 13 plebiscites to get the people's approval of his changes to the government. Of course they never held these votes until they had spent enough time propagandizing the people to make sure they voted the "right way". The same process is repeating in Venezuela.