Quote:

Guys, they're just wordcrafting BIG SCIENTIFIC WORD NONSENSE.

+1

I happen to know a few people to suggest trying this out, but...

* There can't be any heavy hydrogen? That's going to be a pain in the ass to satisfy. Or is it? I know that extracting heavy water is tedious, but how hard is it to separate isotopes if you want to get rid of the deuterium?

* And, I don't know if I can bring myself to mention something out of a place with a name like "University of Bologna".

Bologna is one of the oldest learning institutions on the planet and, at one time, would have carried huge respect (I think particularly in the field of Engineering). Not intimating that there's any sort of truth behind the fusion claim, just think the academic snobbery is misplaced...and tiresome.

Quote:

There can't be any heavy hydrogen? That's going to be a pain in the ass to satisfy.

In the interview page, it said you can't have more than 2% of H2 as deuterium. In nature the abundance of D is only 0.015% of the total H so no problem.

Don't know why it works? Not good.

Quote:

According to a press release in Google translate, the scientists say they cannot explain how the cold fusion is triggered, “but the presence of copper and the release of energy are witnesses.”

The fact that Rossi and Focardi chose to reveal the reactor at a press conference, and the fact that their paper lacks details on how the reactor works, has made many people uncomfortable.

Video of the machine working.

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-ital....

Gotta be kiddin...

Where's the turnip truck, gotta pick some of you up for a fallin off joy ride.

somebody buy him a capillary pump

Turbo Encabulator

I am sure lots of questions could be answered below.

http://pesn.com/2011/01/21/9501749_Fight....

Quote:

Fighting the Infection of Cynical Skepticism with Cold Fusion

Given the abundant evidence available, both for cold fusion in general and for the recent Italian 10 kW demonstration in particular, why is it that mainstream science's first reaction has to be crass criticism instead of curiosity and tentative support?

Buddy of Georgia, USA
for Pure Energy Systems News

Rossi and Focardi's 10 kW cold fusion heat generating device is demonstrated during the Italian press conference Jan. 14, 2011.
Photo by Daniele Passerini, the who reported the day's proceedings in his blog.




A week ago today there was a demonstration and test of a cold fusion system in Italy. The inventor, Andrea Rossi, was there along with several scientists, and observers. This system used the common elements hydrogen and nickel to produce a nuclear reaction which resulted in a large gain of energy. For every unit of input there were many units of output in the form of thermal energy. Although some details of the system had to remain confidential (special catalysts used and the preparation of the nano-sized nickel powder) to protect the inventors intellectual property, the facts were clear: the first robust "on demand" cold fusion device emerged to the world.

The proof of the non-chemical nature of this device is the large gain of energy, the nuclear transmutation of nickel into copper, and radiation. In fact, the radiation is so strong it is what produces the heat as it interacts with what is used to construct the cell. To shield the radiation two centimeters of lead must be used! These signs make it clear that this cell is utilizing a novel and new process that needs to be investigated.


Skepticism Galore

However, over the past several days I have read many negative and hostile comments made by overly cynical skeptics. Instead of simply wanting more evidence, more testing, or more information; they have resorted to the same old tactics they usually utilize. These methods of pushing their agenda are name calling, mud-slinging, making totally false statements, and speaking before doing their homework. So far, Andrea Rossi and those that consider this work to be worthy of intense investigation, have been libeled by being called, "believers", "nutters", "cranks", "pathological", "kooks", and have been accused of believing in "snake oil." Popular Science resorted to calling the whole situation "dubious." In fact, instead of discussing the data, some of these naysayers are attempting to cast doubt on the sanity of anyone who shows an interest in this new technology. It seems to me that individuals who claim to honor science, reason, and truth should have the moral character to act in a civilized manner.

What also amazes me is how many of these individuals make comments without checking the facts. Some have claimed there is "no way" this system can be nuclear without producing radiation. Well, it does! Also, it has been stated that if the energy produced was nuclear everyone at the demonstration should be dead due to radiation exposure. Apparently, they refuse to accept that COLD FUSION does not work exactly the same as HOT FUSION. I read yet another comment in which someone pronounced that there is no way someone can produce a nuclear reaction at room temperature. They did not bother to read how the cell is heated to 400 to 500 degrees C.

Of course this is not the worst part. Instead of being hopeful that this technology could be legitimate, some overly skeptical individuals began to talk about different ways those involved could use it in a fraudulent scheme to make money. Someone went so far to say that they could claim it worked, buy electricity cheap from one building, and sell the electricity back to the electric company at a higher rate claiming it was "green." It seems some naysayers would rather have a fraud play out than see an amazing new technology change our planet.

I'm convinced this technology is legitimate. However, I want to see more data, additional testing, and learn more about the nuclear reaction involved. To not want to see such things would be foolish. However, I'm not about to criticize the inventor, slander curious individuals, and bash everyone involved because I don't have ALL the information I want YET. It has only been about a WEEK since the demonstration was made. The scientists involved are studying the data and will be presenting more detailed findings in the near future. I'm willing to wait a few days. I have some level of patience. Apparently, some of the cynics who claim to be the guardians of science from the "pathological idiots" have none.

For years overly skeptical scientists, journalists, and other individuals have attacked cold fusion. It has been dismissed as pseudo-science, snake-oil, fairy dust, woo-woo, and pathological science. My hope is that when this technology when is sold on the market, used to produce energy to power our homes, and proven beyond any doubt as a technology that has a place in industry, that this will be a warning to future scientists not to mock new discoveries, becoming an embarrassment to mainstream science more grave than their assertion a century ago that man could never build a flying contraption. I hope those that have criticized those of us who have been following cold fusion for many years will openly apologize for their remarks.

However, a thousand apologizes will not erase the harm done to our society by their intense skepticism, closed mind, and greed. If they had showed honest curiosity about cold fusion over the past couple of decades instead of hostility we could have been at this point many years ago, having received the needed funding and scientific resources needed. Instead, we have had to use up more oil reserves, pollute the planet even more, fight wars over oil, and continue using primitive technology.

Cold Fusion could be the discovery that lets humanity know ALL things are possible. If humanity dreams something it CAN be done. However, the skeptics and cynics did not contribute to the bright future that may be ahead of us due to this technology. It was the minority of scientists and researchers with an OPEN mind that were willing to look at NEW POSSIBILITIES. These individuals endured hostility, assaults, and attacks of all kinds. They need to be remembered.


Postscript by Sterling D. Allan

Jed Rothwell of LENR-CANR.org pointed out that "cold fusion has been reproduced roughly 17,000 times according to an estimate published by the Institute of High Energy Physics, Chinese Academy of Sciences."

The story seen here with mainstream science versus "alternative" science, is the same as is being seen with alternative news versus mainstream news. The "alternative" crowd is becoming much more popular because it is so much more relevant and enlightened – and advanced.

The well-entrenched status quo gets too big for their own good, and get bogged down with bureaucracy, loosing vision and innocent curiosity. They won't cover something unless it is thoroughly proven, forgetting that the bleeding edge is where the real action is at.

So even though they surely were made aware of the Italian press conference by their readership, it took them a week before any of them (first by PhysOrg, which cited us as their primary source) finally get around to covering what could be the energy breakthrough of the decade. And when they did begin to cover it, all Popular Science could muster is crass skepticism.

Their days are as numbered as oil, which will always be needed for certain things such as lubrication (thought that function may also eventually be superseded by some improvement), but which is growing obsolete by new breakthroughs coming along by maverick inventors. The days of big brother, to which the establishment, including the mainstream press and academia, pander as lap dogs; are coming to an end, thank God.

An article posted later today by Discovery is totally lame, saying "Pons and Fleischmann ... remain adamant that their research was valid, though no one has been able to reproduce their findings." Mainstream publications are digging their grave by such ridiculous idiocy. I responded in part:

"Cold fusion has been reproduced roughly 17,000 times according to an estimate published by the Institute of High Energy Physics, Chinese Academy of Sciences." -- Jed Rothwell, LENR-CANR.org, Jan. 19, 2011

# # #
What You Can Do

1. Pass this on to your friends and favorite news sources.
2. Help us manage the PESWiki feature page on this.
3. Purchase a unit and/or encourage others who are able, to do so.
4. We at PES Network are in a pinch right now. Donations would be greatly appreciated.
5. Subscribe to our newsletter to stay abreast of the latest, greatest developments in the free energy sector.
6. Let professionals in the renewable energy sector know about the promise of this technology.
7. Consider investing in Rossi's group.

This story is also posted at BeforeItsNews

Quote:

So far, Andrea Rossi and those that consider this work to be worthy of intense investigation, have been libeled by being called, "believers", "nutters", "cranks", "pathological", "kooks", and have been accused of believing in "snake oil." Popular Science resorted to calling the whole situation "dubious." In fact, instead of discussing the data, some of these naysayers are attempting to cast doubt on the sanity of anyone who shows an interest in this new technology. It seems to me that individuals who claim to honor science, reason, and truth should have the moral character to act in a civilized manner.
...
I want to see more data, additional testing, and learn more about the nuclear reaction involved. To not want to see such things would be foolish. However, I'm not about to criticize the inventor, slander curious individuals, and bash everyone involved because I don't have ALL the information I want YET. It has only been about a WEEK since the demonstration was made. The scientists involved are studying the data and will be presenting more detailed findings in the near future. I'm willing to wait a few days. I have some level of patience. Apparently, some of the cynics who claim to be the guardians of science from the "pathological idiots" have none.

Best thing I've yet read concerning it. Sanity emerges - will it be overwhelmed or prevail?

I'm FAR from convinced as well, but if it's a hoax it's elaborate as hell. Wouldn't be the first time - which is the source of my skepticism, but I'm not willing to call it a hoax just because there have been others in the past.

Lets stick with reason and logic. Please.

Bottom line:

Genesis wrote..

If it's fusing atoms it is producing gamma radiation.

Agreed, and simple enough to prove...hold a Geiger counter over it when it's off, then again when it's on. If you get the same reading, it's not a "cold fusion" nuclear reaction, but rather a chemical one.
I've looked through most of the links on this topic, but I've not been able to find evidence that this simple test was done. Did I miss something?
There was something mentioned about lead shielding, but no radiation measurements. That should be the first data that any scientist working on this should report (if for their own safety, if nothing else!), rather than kW input vs kW output.
I'm not dismissing "cold fusion" or the scientists involved, but the proof should be a fairly easy practical matter, without having to argue over the theoretical physics involved.

Well, one of my problems with this is that if the guy who "discovered" it did so by accident, how come he isn't dead?

His original experiment definitely WASN'T shielded against radiation, as he wasn't expecting it. So exactly how many rads did he take, and why is he still walking?

Genesis wrote..

So exactly how many rads did he take...?

My experience with radioactive isotopes was with Cobalt-60, in a hospital setting. The source was about the size of a hockey puck, and at a distance of 10 feet would give a total body dose of about 10 rads per minute.
The lethal human doses are (approx.) as follows:
<100 rads...non-lethal, (but usually very sick)
100-800 rads....lethal, rises from 1% to 99%
>800 rads....100% lethal, usually within 48 hours.

Of course, the radiation emission spectra for nickel and copper isotopes are different from Cobalt-60, and the total dose depends on the size of the source and distance from it, but it would seem reasonable to strongly caution against exposure to a (successful) cold fusion experiment, for any length of time.
My advice to anyone planning to try cold fusion experiments: buy a Geiger counter. They're relatively cheap and easy to use.
It would be a shame to discover something like that and not live long enough to enjoy your Nobel prize and all the Trillions of dollars that you will make.

Icarus wrote..

Agreed, and simple enough to prove...hold a Geiger counter over it when it's off, then again when it's on. If you get the same reading, it's not a "cold fusion" nuclear reaction, but rather a chemical one.

Two posts above yours:

Quote:

In fact, the radiation is so strong it is what produces the heat as it interacts with what is used to construct the cell. To shield the radiation two centimeters of lead must be used! These signs make it clear that this cell is utilizing a novel and new process that needs to be investigated.
...
What also amazes me is how many of these individuals make comments without checking the facts. Some have claimed there is "no way" this system can be nuclear without producing radiation. Well, it does!

funny thing about this - since everybody went thru the 'CF is bunk' routine years back and the people in question were discredited to the extreme...

What are the odds that two physicists at an italian university would suddenly go mad and decide to throw away their careers?

Seems like second time around only an insane person would come forward with anything that couldnt be easily confirmed... Insane.

hMM.

Superconduction worked before they could explain it. If it works it works explain it later.

There was clear and easily reproducible evidence of superconductivity.

Silly guys...

Quote:

There was clear and easily reproducible evidence of superconductivity.

Then I guess all the people writing these papers and performing experiments must be crackpots:
http://www.newenergytimes.com/v2/reports....

I'm gonna email them to send me the **** they're smoking, 'cause I want some. Like these guys: http://www.newenergytimes.com/v2/library....

Obseedian wrote..

Then I guess all the people writing these papers and performing experiments must be crackpots

No, they're not crackpots. I read several of the articles, and they're doing what scientists do (or should do): experimenting and making observations. But none of them claim to have "clear and easily reproducible evidence" of cold fusion. That's their goal, of course, but they're not there yet.
Scientific progress often involves a lot of dead ends, blind alleys, and luck. All scientific journals contain the record of this.

And yes, there is "clear and easily reproducible evidence for superconductivity" among other things.

Remember, the current model of atomic physics, though proven useful for almost a century, still has huge holes that beg for a better understanding of what's really going on. If these guys have exploited such, I'm surprised they are still alive.

Every proton is a mini black hole containing the entire energy of the known universe as its portion of the zero point field. The strong nuclear force is gravity. Read it and tell me I'm wrong.

http://theresonanceproject.org/pdf/schwa....

See, this is what you get when you ban me from "Tin Foil"

Boz wrote..

Remember, the current model of atomic physics, though proven useful for almost a century, still has huge holes that beg for a better understanding of what's really going on

Agreed. In fact, I've wondered if the current "Standard Model" isn't analogous to the Ptolemaic Model of the solar system; in order to make accurate predictions, it had to become crazy over-complicated.

Boz wrote..

Every proton is a mini black hole containing the entire energy of the known universe as its portion of the zero point field.

I'd like to see the paper where he explains away the 38 or so orders of magnitude discrepancy between the observed mass of a proton and the mass a proton would need to in order to produce Schwartzchild radius the size of a proton.

The Resonance Project wrote..

Instead of seeing ourselves as separate from everything around us, this view allows us to recognize that we are embedded in a fractal feedback dynamic that intrinsically connects all things via the medium of a vacuum structure of infinite potential.

I bet that would make sense, given enough pakalolo.

-Uwe-

Quote:

See, this is what you get when you ban me from "Tin Foil"

Tell me you're not kidding.

I don't know how many times it needs to be said but I will repeat it again: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

After reading Gen's summary of the SOTU this is the only thing that can save the Obama presidency.