Why do they build houses with raised foundation?

is it normal for wet areas (Nor Cal) to have houses with raised foundations?

is it normal to have pooling water in the crawl space a week after the rain?

Is it normal for the pest inspector to view such standing water and still say ventilation looks great— no problem that he can see?

is it normal to have house inspector to suggest a sump-pump because of evidence of prior flooding and everyone think this is no big deal?

Is it OK that the seller didn't disclose prior flooding and remedy of a French drain?

I must have stupid written on my head because I thought finding water under the ****ing house (unless they are ocean waves) was RUN FOREST RUN moment?

A raised foundation will be used when the water table is high.

I'm kind of shocked that there isn't already a sump if theres a high water table and a raised foundation.

A french drain is one way to fix the water problem.. but a combination of the french drain and a sump is probably best just in case.

The high water table isn't really a major issue to the foundation.. the issue will come if the water comes in contact with the wood frame.

If the wood frame is visible and there's no mold or anything, then you're probably fine, but I would install a sump pump so that water never has a chance to touch the frame again.

If its an old house and the frame isn't visible, I would avoid it.

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Why do they build houses with raised foundation?

Accessibility to stuff like plumbing, electrical, and ductwork is one good reason.

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is it normal to have pooling water in the crawl space a week after the rain?

Sounds like there's a drainage problem which should be addressed.

-Uwe-

CJ—
not all the houses on the street have raised foundations but this one and the one next to it both have them and French drains.

there is a year round stream that runs through the park behind the house, but this house is supposed to be in a non-flood area

It appears from the deposits on the foundation walls that the water has gotten real high and the posts at the time of the inspection were wet

I will also say that this has been an unusually dry winter up here

We have looked at foreclosed houses with water pooling issues where the Realtor agreed that they shouldn't be messed with.

Uwe- that is what I thought a raised foundation was for but apparently my Realtor thinks it is for lots with water issues

When he came over — AFTER we told him that we didn't want to buy a water problem— he acted like the findings in the inspection were no big deal. That this is a normal thing up here and we better not look at any house with a raised foundation then because they are all wet. We should counter...

—COUNTER??

WTF?

Am I over reacting??

Most realtors are clueless idiots, and I ain't too impressed by home inspectors either.

If you don't feel right about it, don't buy it.

-Uwe-

If by "raised foundation" you mean crawl space - that is the most common method of construction here in the western Carolinas. A little unusual to see homes built on a slab here. Slab foundations are generally cheaper, but harder to work on/add on, later.

A house that is wet underneath does not have good drainage - could have a spring, or ground water underneath.

Such a house will have a mildew problem. Quite possibly a bad mildew problem.

Drainage issues can be difficult and expensive to repair and unless there is a compelling reason to purchase such a house, I would stay away.

In this particular case, I would have nothing further to do with the referenced house, and believe the agent is an idiot, or is only interested in his commission.

Vegas, I am an IICRC certified Journeyman water damage restoration specialist. Water standing in a space below your home is a big, big, problem. Water that is standing under your home is going to create a micro climate under your home with a very high humidity level. Over time the frame (wood) of your home begins to absorb this moisture. This causes the wood to decay faster than it should but more worrisome and common would be the risk for microbial growth. What state are you in and what is the average temp there? You need to either rent or get someone out there who owns a moisture multi-meter. They need to take moisture readings in at least 6-8 points on the frame of the underside of your home. The readings should be taken at the surface and at 1/3-1/2 inches below surface via the multi meter. In wood a reading over 12% moisture content is trouble and leads to a whole of problems. I would want an air quality as well as surface test taken and sent to a lab for analysis and identification of microbial growth present (no you can not always see it). This would be due to earlier flooding issues before the current drain was installed. I would also want to make sure no expansion and or contraction or extreme levels of settling have not occurred due to the frame becoming too moist at some earlier date before the current drain system was installed.

Big red flag is the non disclosure. Water in a home can be devastating even in a crawl space if it is not promptly, and properly addressed. And I can tell you from my personal professional experience folks do not call in for professional help in these situations generally until it has gone on for way too long and they are starting to have to deal with unbearable or unavoidable side effects from having standing water under your home.

Be very careful. Do your own due diligence on this one. Hire in some professionals who can come and give you unbiased information. Never trust a sellers or Realtors "guys", or the ones who they recommend. They are not on your side and will screw you. Remember it is not water in your living room and the current owner may not have known for years he had a problem until it started smelling or he was getting mold or extreme moisture in his home in the summer. Just remember though, the damage is just as sever if not worse when water is laying under a house vs a flood in the structure as the moisture can attack the frame and more easily move through walls and HVAC systems and the cracks around them and create microbial (mold) issues that are undetectable from a casual walk through the house.

PS...If you are in Ohio or close to the border of, I will come take a look and do moisture readings and help you get air and surface swab samples sent off to a lab at no costs to you besides the lab fees which you pay directly to them. $110.

PSS You need to Identify the source of the water. Not what it might be, but what the source defiantly is. Are the homes connected to city sewer or is it a leach bed? Does the city sewer line run under your home? Seems like it couldt happen yet I have done 2 sewage jobs in the last 6 years here in columbus where that was the case. In other words make sure it is not "Black", or sewer water. You saying you have a creek behind the house is concerning as that would indicate the home sits elevated to some degree and water should run away from the house.

Thanks so much Spazz!

I knew it would be bigger than just putting in a sump pump and calling it a day — your expertise confirms that!

Fact is, knowing there has been flooding in the crawl space once has made me lose confidence in the house. I'm pretty sure the owner won't do all the tests necessary to clear it out of fear that it will fail anyway.

The house is up here in Nor Cal and we were going to buy it. I think it floods just because it sit lower than area around it— apparently it wasn't graded properly?? That is from observation only though.

Thank you for the offer of services- that is very nice of you.

As someone that has built dozens of homes on crawl space foundations, I can tell you that you NEVER, EVER want standing water in there. You don't even want it damp.

Run.

the solution is to dig a basement and make a swimming hole for the lowest level of your house.

Djloche

and Yes Swing— the Realtor is only interested in himself
I was real*****ed that the seller didn't disclose a damn thing and was trying to screw us over and not too happy with our Realtor's attitude about it either
—so much so that my husband has had to deal with him.

they are trying so hard not to lose "the deal"

Despite repeatedly telling him that we want nothing to do with a house that has water issues and calling Bull**** on his "all crawl spaces are wet" statements (thanks Sandor)

he kept coming back with - well, the seller is going to have to deal with these problems for the next buyer so he will do whatever he has to in order to make you comfortable with the issue, so what do you say"

My husband had to spell it out again today and told him he wanted the papers and didn't want to hear any more of it—the house will be bought by somebody but it won't be us— time to move on—am I clear?!

Get an estimate on how much it'll take to fix it - worst case scenario - add 50% more and then subtract that from your offer.

Be sure to tell him EXACTLY why.

Asi

here was our line of thinking:

1. I'm not sure it is fixable as the house sits lower than the surrounding area

2. there is no way of knowing how much water damage has already occurred or mold that exists from prior pooling/flooding under the house

3. don't know if the foundation has been compromised from ground saturation and flooding up to the wood posts

4. Even if they could rectify all the above, the pooling/ flooding would be an issue that would have to be maintained—french drain kept clean, sump pumps etc.

5. There would be a substantial loss of value to the house for known water issues if we did have to sell as most people don't want to buy a house built on water or the threat thereof (hello)

So, I just don't see where buying a house with known water issues such as these make good fiscal sense

****-even insurance companies concede that water totals everything

Well, my above comment probably didn't go far enough - I meant sum the cost of everything you just listed all together, and subtract that from the offer.

The unknowns can be known with testing - add that in too.

Hell, add in the cost to bring in dirt and raise the lot.

If it ends up being a number too small for them to accept (like, say a negative value... ) Tell them anyway, use it as a clue by four. :P

I'm with Vegas, Asi. Time to move on from that house, and that realtor.

I've dealt with several of these issues. They tend to get complicated and expensive very fast.

There can be a huge "hassle" factor, also.

The non-disclosure part is very troubling, too. What else are they not disclosing?

Life is too short to enter a large transaction with dishonest people.

Not to mention, once you take the corrective action, don't you have to disclose that to the next buyer? If so, that then reduces the marketability when it's time to sell.

Vegas, I am dealing with this very issue in my home NOW. I am intimately knowledgeable about these problems and their consequences.

I have spent over $30K SO FAR into ongoing litigation costs related to the construction of my new home built with a crawl space and has water pouring in during rain events. RUN, don't walk, away from that property!

Listen to what Spazz wrote.

In addition to all the concerns outlined by Spazz, there is also the longer term issue of foundation failure due to water continuing to pour in under the foundation.

While there are "patches" out there that can protect the living space, such as dry spaces (similar to swimming pool liners), french drains and sump pumps, none of these address the the root cause. Root cause must be investigated and effective verifiable corrective action must be executed to stop water from even breaching in to the foundation.

Can you trench around the perimeter put perforated PVC covered by clean stone and tyvvec and run the drain out well way from the house?

Vegas, you've already received the excellent advice. I am modestly familiar with the various issues but I could not articulate them as well as has Spazz.

Avoid.

The only thing I will ad is the following principle: When you buy something used (or even new, but especially used) you buy the thing complete with all the defects. Standing water under a house has the potential to create absolutely horrific problems with mold and foundation deterioration and soil creep. You could investigate and find....whatever you find. You could ponder remediation, but there is literally nothing that will take care of whatever damage has already occurred, if any. The non-disclosure is a big wave off in any event.

Find a different house.

what water under a home can do.
Bravo to Mr Vegas on telling the realtor off. I hope you are getting a new one on grounds of dishonesty and not working on your behalf.
anyways a photo or two for those of you saying to fix it.



Its just not worth it. Not when you add to the fact you will be losing a good chunk of the value of your home for the next decade or so on top of it. So running is not gonna be an option. Once its bought it is your pile of **** to deal with or default on. Not options I would want to be left with.

Yup.....one area under my house...note the critter.

Yikes Ckuennen, did they build your house on an underground stream? That is some serious seepage coming up from under your foundation?????

PS how much secondary damage has been done to the home?????

Oh Spazz its an incredible and long story..............last time tested we had mold in the crawl space but not in the living area........hardwood floors are cupping especially during A/C season when we pull out humidity from the livng area......differential in humidity causing cupping....

and here's what floor joists look like........

here's the kind of **** growing under there.......

(Alleged) ****ing lying liars that developed, built, and sold this home.........at least 10 others with the same problems in their crawl spaces, but none of those owners had the balls to litigate. I did. They sell out when they find out about the development's problems. Some of them throw in patch fixes and then flip them to the next sucker. Very few original owners left. I am not going to defraud someone.

Developer is owner and realtor for this planned community, and owned the homes when they were sold. One of the principals is a ****ing geologist and should have known. Begged these (alleged) *******s to fix the problems, they did try but then gave up, tried the trench drain but it made the problems worse........

After investigating I found out they moved huge amounts of dirt around. Older homes across the road and uphill had wells for decades that suspiciously dried up afer the grading. Not only that, the people on adjacent properties say the area had always been swampy and there are springs. (Alledged) Fraudster ****ers knew and built the development anyway. Construction workers kept asking what they were going to do about the water problems but never got any straight answers.

I also found out the reason that two lots in my cul de sac do not have homes built on them is because of Springs.

I've dealt with this problem and would have sold the house at 20% above my buy in just 2 years after I bought..........now the market here is back to near my cost basis. This ****er is underwater, just not equity wise.

After we started litigation the builder committed suicide. I don't think because of this though.

Its a cluster**** all right.

(Alleged) Fraudster ****ers can eat their own cooking. I've got nine causes of action pending in my case against them. They can have my house back and pay my damages. All of them.

I hope this turns into a class action.