Too funny. We're chattel. The last line in the quote is telling....

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Man Tries To Relinquish US Citizenship. Application Denied

I was approached recently by a member of our Sovereign Man community who filed the paperwork to relinquish US citizenship some time ago. Long story short, after an incomprehensibly long wait, the US government finally sent him a reply: Application DENIED.

Absolutely shocking. That you even have to ‘apply’ to relinquish what you never signed up for is intellectually insulting. That you cannot do so freely, and immediately, is nothing short of totalitarian.

It’s still an embryonic movement, though more and more US citizens are being driven to divorce their country. Last year nearly 1,600 people gave up US citizenship, up from 1,485 in 2010, 731 in 2009, and 226 in 2008.

While some renunciants have philosophical misgivings about being American, most do it for tax reasons. There’s a growing number of expats who, despite living abroad for years, are still paying huge portions of their income to Uncle Sam.

What’s more, the filing requirements are getting more and more onerous. US citizens living overseas have to keep up with all sorts of changes to the tax code that they may not be privy to, and the penalties for noncompliance are severe.

I can’t tell you how many friends I have who are US citizens living abroad that had no idea they were supposed to file the Report of Foreign Bank Account (FBAR) form every year; or the new FATCA form 8938; or those with businesses that must file form 8858 or 5471.

Usually these things come with pretty nasty penalties, possibly up to $10,000 per instance of failure to file.

Then there’s the latest, greatest tax target: accidental US citizens. This group consists of foreigners who happen to be dual nationals because they were born in the US or have an American parent.

These foreigners have spent their entire lives outside the US. They know absolutely nothing about US tax code. Now they’re getting Dear John letters from the US government saying-

“I see you are a US citizen but have never filed your taxes. Please enclose a check for the following absurd amount of money, which includes interest and penalties for the last 20-years…”

Such tactics smack of desperation… typical of the same sorts of cannibalistic moves that failing, bankrupt governments throughout history have exacted upon their people.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post....

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Then there’s the latest, greatest tax target: accidental US citizens. This group consists of foreigners who happen to be dual nationals because they were born in the US or have an American parent.

These foreigners have spent their entire lives outside the US. They know absolutely nothing about US tax code. Now they’re getting Dear John letters from the US government saying-

“I see you are a US citizen but have never filed your taxes. Please enclose a check for the following absurd amount of money, which includes interest and penalties for the last 20-years…”

And why not? Is that not tax law?

Now reverse the situation... dual nationals in the U.S. receive letters from *other* countries' governments telling them they are legally obligated to do something or other for that country. THAT'S exactly why the Constitution's Framers excluded those born dual/multi-nationals from eligibility for POTUS.

Again, the U.S. State Department warns about the problems dual nationality presents...
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw....

Obama, born a dual/multi-national, is Constitutionally ineligible. This latest act by our own government proves exactly why that is.

"And why not? Is that not tax law? "

This intolerance, narrow-minded adherence to out of date concepts, rooted in Puritanism - it has to go.

If the tax law stated that the US can tax anyone on earth, is that moral, ethical, legal, justifiable as well?

You guys are done.

It was to make the point that followed, Ben. Think it through...


Any country can make any law requiring their citizens/subjects to do whatever that country's government wants. As an example, go back in U.S. history and review impressment and the War of 1812. The U.S. State Department warns of those types of problems with dual/multi-nationals, as well.

That's why the Constitution requires POTUS to be a natural born citizen, born in the U.S. to 2 U.S. citizen parents so that no other country can make any legally binding demands of that person.

"That's why the Constitution requires POTUS to be a natural born citizen, born in the U.S. to 2 U.S. citizen parents so that no other country can make any legally binding demands of that person."

It was to make the counterpoint that follows...

Namely that America, more than any other nation, really needs people in political office who have more than your median American's point of view.

Our nation desperately needs those dual-nationals, who have a clue about the outside world. Adults who spent half their adult lives in one or several other countries, so they don't operate from the near total ignorance that so many Americans consider a mark of philistine pride.

Even if the law were changed, [which it won't ever be] the attitude it engenders is so ****ed up and entrenched that it results in ****ed up, and entrenched, foreign policy.

How does the IRS even know about a dual citizen that hasn't lived in the US unless that person also has a Social Security number? Were they somehow made into US property by the parents? Or is this just 'automatic' now?

BS, Ben. Other countries don't always act in good faith when it comes to their own citizens who also happen to be dual/multi-nationals. What's to stop them from legally requiring military service against any of the other countries of which the dual/multi-national also happens to be a citizen?

Law's the law, bitches! Now pay up!

Come to think of it, here is a great way for Uncle Sam to balance the books: retroactively declare every foreigner who ever visited the USA as a citizen and make them pay their "fair share", with interest and penalties, of course! After all, someone who visited the USA for two weeks on vacation is definitely more of a citizen than someone who was born there and left two days later.

I suspect you are not mentioning that this fellow is not living in a foreign country but is one of those declaring his personal sovereignty while living in the US. If I am wrong tell me.

@Obseedian... Because the 14th Amendment has been twisted and misconstrued by activist judges, anyone BORN in the U.S. is a U.S. citizen. Get the courts et al to adhere to the actual documented intent of the 14th, and those born in the U.S. to NON-citizen parents would NOT be U.S. citizens.

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I suspect you are not mentioning that this fellow is not living in a foreign country but is one of those declaring his personal sovereignty while living in the US. If I am wrong tell me.

You do NOT "own" yourself.

You're a terrorist if you think in such a way.

Enemy of the State.

"How does the IRS even know about a dual citizen that hasn't lived in the US unless..."

Other foreign nationals tell me:

"Well, how are they going to know? Just don't tell them."

Except that the USA has financial and banking reciprocity agreements with everyone, even the Chinese.

That's probably true Ben...but I'm aware of at least 1 dual-citizen who's had accounts overseas with a LOT of money in them that the IRS never knew about...but, he also never mentioned his US citizenship while overseas so there was basically no connection...in effect - two people with no connection between them except for a similar - but not identical name.

I'm still curious to see one of these 'letters' to validate this, as I don't see how they could find the connection without somebody specifically telling them about it.

Mpilar wrote..

I'm aware of at least 1 dual-citizen who's had accounts overseas with a LOT of money in them that the IRS never knew about...but, he also never mentioned his US citizenship while overseas so there was basically no connection

The U.S. Gov may be able to trace him through birth records. They're getting desperate for revenue so they're scouring records more rigorously.

Desperate governments do desperate things. That's why the Framers of the Constitution specifically intended POTUS to NOT have divided and therefore conflicting allegiances.

Common sense would tell you that an citizen living abroad should only be responsible for taxes on income generated in the US.

When has government EVER used common sense?

The IRS is hitting them up for failure to file penalty fees and interest.
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/inte....

So this is interesting.

IIRC, you can only extradite if the alleged crime is a crime in both countries. Many countries don't give a **** if you don't file while you're living elsewhere. I think Canada works this way. No Canadian income while I'm in another country, no need to file. So, Uncle ****head shouldn't be able to extradite these financial master criminals from Canada.

Anyway, what does Uncle ****head propose to do to those criminals they can't extradite? Drone attacks?

Seriously, you can't make this **** up and it continues to get weirder and weirder as time goes on. IANAL.

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The U.S. Gov may be able to trace him through birth records. They're getting desperate for revenue so they're scouring records more rigorously.

That would only work if he was born in the 'states...if his dual-citizenship is because he was born in another country, then it would be much more difficult. In this particular case, as far as both governments are concerned, they each have their own citizen, and there's no link/connection between these two people.

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Anyway, what does Uncle ****head propose to do to those criminals they can't extradite? Drone attacks?

I think standard practice is bank account seizures...

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That would only work if he was born in the 'states...if his dual-citizenship is because he was born in another country, then it would be much more difficult.

Not so difficult if the American citizen parent registered the birth at an American Embassy as is frequently done.

So where was this guy living that was denied? Let me guess, the United States?

It's sort of like the mafia. Once you're in you can't get out - not without consequences. ;)

Land of the "free".

Indeed.

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Not so difficult if the American citizen parent registered the birth at an American Embassy as is frequently done.

Wouldn't work in this particular case (not born to American parents), but otherwise, yes, that's a possibility.