Pilot,

Since you have been doing this for years, I am sure you will agree that there is a problem with your "Gasoline Demand" graph.

I am sure you will agree that gasoline is not measured in barrels.

Also, what does "Demand" mean? It can mean a hypothetical consumption level.

Ishmael, let me ask you a real question:

So you listened to him. I can tell because it affected you and you even changed your ideas.

Did he listen to you?

According to the EIA's data for gasoline this particular graph is measured in barrels. EIA's definition of such is 42 US gallons. Im not sure what the problem is? Its the EIA's data, I did not make it up.

Might I suggest we take this discussion somewhere else..its relevant but not really on topic anymore.

I'm surprised nobody has brought up Israeli military technology cooperation with our Chinese friends, which has historically INCLUDED the sales of US sensitive technology:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/....

Quote:

ISRAEL has sold at least dollars 2bn ( pounds 1.3bn) to dollars 3bn of hi-tech military equipment to China, seriously undermining US efforts to limit the sale of advanced weapons to the Chinese. A Senate report due out later this week says the Israeli exports include military technology developed by the US, and which Washington expressly forbids from being exported to China.

Officials accompanying Israel's Prime Minister, Yitzhak Rabin, on a visit to China confirmed that Israel had done deals but would not elaborate. The CIA told the committee the Chinese were seeking from Israel technologies that Western firms were unwilling to provide.

Those sold by Israel are said by specialists to include technology for the Python - the Israeli version of the US Sparrow air-to-air missile - and technology developed for the US-financed Lavi jet, which the Israelis cancelled some years ago.

The US is also concerned that Israel may have passed on technology for the Arrow anti-missile missile, a joint US-Israel project, which is based on the Patriot missile used in the Gulf war.

The Israeli Defence Ministry director-general, David Ivri, accompanying Mr Rabin in China, said in response to the Senate report: 'There are security relations (between Israel and China) but I cannot relate either to numbers or the substance of deals themselves.'

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/12/world/....

Quote:

Israel Selling China Military Technology, C.I.A. Chief Asserts
By MICHAEL R. GORDON
Published: October 12, 1993
Israel has sold advanced military technology to China for more than a decade and is moving to expand its cooperation with Beijing, says R. James Woolsey, the Director of Central Intelligence.

The C.I.A. assessment was provided in written responses to questions by the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee. The committee made the assessment public last week as part of a report on recent hearings it conducted on "proliferation threats of the 1990's," a committee aide said tonight.

There have been many news reports about the sale of Israeli military technology to China, which did not establish diplomatic relations with Israel until 1992, and the Rand Corporation has made similar assessments. The C.I.A.'s response to the committee was reported tonight by NBC News and confirmed by the aide. Jets, Missiles, Tanks

The C.I.A. says China has been acquiring advanced military technology from Israel for more than a decade on programs for jet fighters, air-to-air missiles and tanks. The agency said the sale of Israeli military technology to China "may be several billion dollars.

...

"Building on a long history of close defense industrial relations -- including work on China's next generation fighter, air-to-air missiles, and tank programs -- and the establishment of diplomatic relations in January 1992, China and Israel appear to be moving toward formalizing and broadening their military technical cooperation," Mr. Woolsey said.

Explaining its assessment, the agency noted that Beijing and Tel Aviv recently signed an agreement to cooperate in sharing technology in a number of areas, including electronics and space. Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin of Israel was visiting Beijing today to discuss the broadening of Israeli-Chinese ties.

In addition, an increasing number of Israeli military firms also have opened offices in China to sell their products.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/8....

Quote:

Israel's role in China's new warplane
Asia Times ^ | 12/4/02 | David Isenberg

Posted on Wednesday, December 04, 2002

The recent unveiling (sort of) of China's first domestically designed (sort of) fighter jet was the culmination of a long saga of international military-hardware wheeling and dealing that has seen US-designed or -funded high-tech weaponry fall into the hands of potential military rivals.

The showpiece of many years' work, dating back to the late 1980s, recently happened - albeit unobserved - when China confirmed the existence of, but did not unveil, the Jian-10 fighter jet. It had been reported that the J-10 (F-10 being the export version, using North Atlantic Treaty Organization designation) would be shown in public for the first time during the fourth China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition (Airshow China 2002) held in Zhuhai in southern Guangdong province from November 4-10, but the plane did not appear.

The J-10 is a multi-role single-engine and single-seat tactical fighter, with a combat radius of 1,000 kilometers. Although billed as a domestically produced fighter, in truth the J-10 could not have happened without the help of other countries, especially Israel.

The program began in the late 1980s and is thought to be based on an Israeli design. It contains Israeli and Russian avionics, and is powered by Russian engines.

Chinese engineers developed the J-10 from a single F-16 provided by Pakistan, and with assistance from Israeli engineers associated with Israel's US-financed Lavi fighter program, which was canceled in 1987, according to the Federation of American Scientists website. The Lavi was based on the US F-16 and built with US$1.3 billion in aid from Washington.

Pilot,

I still cant find your graph or what it means but the website you tout clearly confirms that gasoline consumption at the retail level is half of what it used to be.

We are using half the gas we once were and we can further reduce it I am sure, especially if THSTF

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHan....

Agau,

Thats total from refiners. We Import a LOT of gasoline also. On top of that the east coast shut down a bunch of refineries last summer and into the fall. My entire point is with your blind assumption that refinery inputs are all there is. That IS NOT A MEASURE of total gasoline demand. Just acknowledge it and move along. You found a graph to support some wrong assumption based on data which is only a PART of the whole.

If you convert the last link you posted to BBL's
(31M gals/42 gals per barrel) it equals @ 739,000 bbls/day. The import data is somewhere near 1M BBL's/day. I follow this stuff regularly. It fluctuates weekly but I am pretty sure Imports are between 750,000 and 1.2M barrels per day and have been for quite some time. There are also seasonal fluctuations, but it doesn't matter.

Last post about this from me, its moving away from the discussion.

Israeli sale of sensitive US technology to China is only tolerated because they are well..... Israel.

Quote:

the price of oil drops once the oil producing nations realize no one is going to bomb them

Wrong, they will bomb each other and oil production will drop to an all time low in the middle east given enough time.

Ishmael, Just so you see what's going on here, when he said "Why does America hate Arabs and etc."? he meant stuff like what's happening this week

http://www.channel4.com/news/us-braced-f....

that someone posted an strange video on YouTube, in his mind means " America hates Arabs" or "we" wouldn't "insult" the central tenet of their existence.

If you want to understand, listen/observe carefully, and don't impose/project your own style of rational evaluation over his thoughts.