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| Find The Difference - Why Ponzi Finance Fails in forum [Ticker]
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Genesis
Posts: 83025
Incept: 2007-06-26
Chief Bottle Washer
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"The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
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Mikeit83
Posts: 486
Incept: 2009-06-19
East Coast
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First- I wish Glenn would pick up on this and run with it.
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Phev
Posts: 264
Incept: 2009-05-17
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Nice ticker, Thanks Karl...
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Max2205
Posts: 56
Incept: 2009-03-06
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KD, I just had a thought, (no jokes please), answer this what if the Fed starts monetizing the debt they already monetized?. You mentioned they bought 2009's so I thought, wait a minute, didn't they already do that. Trying to keep a lid on short rates would require 2 or 3 x available "buys" wouldn't it. OMG, this could blow the lid off this whole BB QE scheme.
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Corn1945
Posts: 203
Incept: 2009-04-30
Online
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I wonder if Mr. Ponzi ever realized he would be such an inspiration to others!
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Bezzle
Posts: 8095
Incept: 2009-08-02
Have YOU starved a Monkey today?
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Quote:This is MATHEMATICS, not Politics or "economic theory", a so-called profession that CONTINUALLY refuses to recognize basic, fundamental mathematical principles in its so-called "pronouncements" and "analysis." Incomplete sentence? (Conclusion about the "profession" seems to be missing.)
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Why would you try to stop this? A bond-market dislocation puts an instant stop to all the bull****. It is the only limiting factor left in this interventionist madness. It is an almost holy event. -- Christian Gustafson Frog Stew & Starving the Monkeys: http://shorl.com/nopregripugipi
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Marc2mrkt
Posts: 158
Incept: 2008-04-12
Taipei
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Many people probably know this already, but another person giving early warning was Brooksley Born. Born was appointed a member of the CFTC, on April 15, 1994, by President Bill Clinton. While on the commission and after becoming its chair two years later, Born sought comments on the need to regulate derivatives, specifically swaps that are traded at no central exchange, known as the dark market, and thus have no transparency except to the two counter-parties (no actual regulatory scheme was proposed at the time).... The request for comments was opposed by Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan and Treasury Secretaries Robert Rubin and Lawrence Summers. Specifically, on May 7, 1998, former SEC Chairman Arthur Levitt joined the other members of the President’s Working Group – Treasury Secretary Rubin and Federal Reserve Board Chairman Greenspan – in objecting to the issuance of the CFTC’s concept release, in which Born attempted to shed light on the dark market, citing grave concerns about the possible consequences of the CFTC’s action. * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooksley_B....* http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con....
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Eaglewwit
Posts: 2787
Incept: 2007-11-30
SoCal
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Those Bloomberg graphs are pretty damning evidence. Whether you call the PPT or not, it is happening.
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Risingcream
Posts: 2895
Incept: 2007-09-07
Online
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Damn this sucks. If they could keep it up for decades how hard can it be to keep it going a few more years. We are going to get bet out on the turn; what if the river card doesn't come out for years.
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Civilization...ancient and wicked. --Subotai
I love to go to Washington - if only to be near my money. -- Bob Hope
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Ablebonus
Posts: 491
Incept: 2007-07-21
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http://www.wegelin.ch/download/medien/pr....The Wegelin paper makes a similar point,the whole thing is worth reading, here's a related excerpt: The sensibilities of their own capital market: this is what the smart guys in the IRS have very probably failed to take into account. Their onesided regulatory proposals, focused on maximizing the tax take, are based on the entirely unproblematic and undisputed attractiveness of the USA as a place of investment for investors from all over the world. We believe this assumption to be utterly wrong. Why? A glance at the USA’s debt situation suffices to show that apart from oil, there is really only one element of strategic importance that the USA will need in the coming years: capital. The (declared) public debt – national, state and community – amounted to some 70 percent of GDP in 2008. With the absorption of further debt in the wake of the financial crisis, by 2014 the level of explicit debt is likely to be significantly above 100 percent of GDP. By then the interest will have doubled from around 10 percent of total public revenue to around 20 percent, on moderate assumptions. This is generally well known. What is generally less well known is that in the USA too, as in so many ailing European states, this explicit perspective reveals less than half the truth about what has been implicitly promised by the state in the way of future benefits. Correctly accounted – that is, as probable future payment flows discounted to present values – the picture would look a good deal bleaker. There are studies, such as the one by the Frankfurt Institute in November 2008, that reckon with a total level of debt for the USA of up to 600 percent (!) of GDP.
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Ilyachern
Posts: 621
Incept: 2007-06-26
North Miami Beach Florida
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That is probably the best ticker you ever wrote, and you wrote some great ones!!! You need to bookmark it, so we can find it easily and give to people to read. For all of you who gave up because people are not listening, remember like many things, this is a snowball effect, and grows exponentially.
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The Fed won't be winding down their balance sheet. Their balance sheet will be winding down the Fed. Level 9 9/23/09
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Mayorquimby
Posts: 7124
Incept: 2008-09-18
The Archaic Past
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Ben is trying to turn all the bs inflationary cash created over the past 17 years into something that will spur real GDP in the hopes that this new economic activity will inflate the system and turn the debt into something more manageable. First it was tech, then housing and now what? I'm with KD and think he will fail but I don't think the reality has hit D.C. just yet.
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Power and control is more important than fiat currency. - Lemonaid
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Icanhasbailout
Posts: 2904
Incept: 2009-03-10
Imaginationland
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You can actually see the bubbles being blown, from one chart to the next...
from chart 1 (to 1960) -2 (to 1970) the business and mortgage lines inflate. from chart 2-3 (to 1980) the business, mortgage, and financial lines inflate. from chart 3-4 (to 1990) the financial and federal lines inflates; business stalls out. from chart 4-5 (to 2000) financial, business, and mortgage lines inflates; federal stalls out. from chart 5-6 (to present) federal line inflates; business and mortgage and financial all stall out.
The only plan if their bottom line is to avoid a debt reset is to somehow make up for the three other top debt sectors using federal debt alone, and whatever can be squeezed out of consumers and state/local governments.
I wonder if anything would jump out if you used the consumer and state/local gov debt lines as a baseline?
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"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws." - Mayer Amschel Rothschild
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Nirvan45
Posts: 2788
Incept: 2007-10-31
florida
Online
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Never Ponzi will continue, that is the only way u.s economy will go forward. Two ticker today looking for accountblity, in your dreams not here BTW: like the charts es and dxy great corrolation and timing of it.
Did you hear your messiah today? He was preaching doom and gloom little over 7 months ago, now he is all giddy His mentor for coming out and pumping forgot to tell him some results are required along with pumping
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Docj
Posts: 197
Incept: 2009-09-10
Suburban Boston
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Rising... "Damn this sucks. If they could keep it up for decades how hard can it be to keep it going a few more years. We are going to get bet out on the turn; what if the river card doesn't come out for years."
I'm guessing that's Ben's and TurboTax Timmy's (as well as Barack Ostumble's) hope - that they can kick the can down the road so it all comes unglued on the next guy.
Hey - worked for George W, no?
Don't think it can, but this market has, if nothing else, proven the "Markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent" maxim to a "T".
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We've gone from a country who's population instinctively knew there was no free lunch to one who's population has convinced itself that the consumption of free lunches is a revenue generating activity.
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Reza30
Posts: 262
Incept: 2009-02-15
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Really good book, worth reading especially given Karl's ticker. Culture of Corruption: Obama and His Team of Tax Cheats, Crooks, and Cronies (Hardcover)  http://www.amazon.com/Culture-Corruption-Cheats-Crooks-Cronies/dp/1596981091/ref=pd_ts_b_30?ie=UTF8&s=books
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Hihoherewego
Posts: 683
Incept: 2009-02-25
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Quote:Economists everywhere have lauded these "innovations" - almost to an individual. They have all bought into and drunk the Kool-Aid without one instant of reflection upon these curves.... Little surprise. My experience with Econ courses taught within institutions of 'higher learning' has been that the math prerequisites pretty much didn't get far beyond Calculus 101 for Dummies. Econ PhD's were looked upon by real science hard-math types as little more than glorified philosophy majors. They conjectured these guys were relatively dumber than a box of rusty hammers. .................... "Excuse me, Mr. Greenspan? Is the Fed guilty of irrational exuberance?"........
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Brucelee
Posts: 856
Incept: 2007-09-12
detroit, mi
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if the fed succesfully transfers the agency risk to the treasury then it will allow the fed to grow their balance sheet even more. whether it's the fed or treasury the risk is still there so isn't it just semantics at this point? will it not be similar to the fed transferring maiden lane to treasury?
they can continue to exponentially grow their balance sheet effectively running this market up for a few more years to come. or at least until Obama gets re-elected. i'm not disagreeing with you Gen but at the same time these games take a long time to play out.
the old saying, "Don't fight the Fed," sure has new meaning.
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"There is no way it can be allowed to be more prosperous than those it has failed, and those who pay its salaries." - Bozonian
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Muscleknight
Posts: 3002
Incept: 2007-06-26
Columbia, SC
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So the last bubble to be blown is the Fed bubble?
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My Financial Avatars - http://s677.photobucket.com/albums/vv131....The best lies have elements of truth. If my uncle jack helped you off an elephant, would you help my uncle jack off an elephant? Yesterday's Tinfoil is Today's news
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Steelhead23
Posts: 666
Incept: 2008-09-09
Portland OR
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Why are the Masters doing this you ask? They know every bit as much as we do, perhaps more. Most of them are very good at math. The reason they are trying to reinflate popped balloons is that allowing the debt to default would severely harm both their wealthy friends, the source of their power, but it would also expose a lot things best left hidden, including their decisions that led to the debt bubble in the first place. Because allowing a full-on debt implosion would make the recession even worse, enraging the public because they said it wouldn't happen, we should expect them to do everything imaginable to prevent it. And yes, Marshall law is not outside the range of possibilities.
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short em all - let God sort em out!
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Etz
Posts: 10215
Incept: 2007-06-26
Online
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The pioneers of Ponzi finance? Fiat currency. Social Security. Medicare.
The problem with Ponzi schemes is that they are dependent on confidence, and confidence in the medium run is undermined by the very nature of Ponzi schemes.
Yes we can!
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The carry trade enhancement from ZIRP is a subsidy for credit losses by banks that comes out of the pockets of savers.
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Taint
Posts: 188
Incept: 2008-12-24
texas
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Steel,
Why do you believe we started down this road long ago? Wealth creation for elites and/or other reasons? What things should best be left hidden?
Would you elaborate.
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Nullzero
Posts: 722
Incept: 2008-11-19
SOCAL
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Quote:The pioneers of Ponzi finance? Fiat currency. Social Security. Medicare.
The problem with Ponzi schemes is that they are dependent on confidence, and confidence in the medium run is undermined by the very nature of Ponzi schemes.
Yes we can! Confidence is being eroded away as we speak. This could explain all the blatant lying from Ben Bernanke, and the increased air time the president is speaking to try to instill confidence. The dollar is an easy indicator of the confidence level (its not looking good). I would give in 1 to 2 years max until the system falls apart. The events that are unfolding will have to come to a conclusion soon (USD decline, government debt bubble, etc.).
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Laura
Posts: 3932
Incept: 2008-05-05
Peoples Republic of Florida
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Clearest presentation to date of what went wrong and when. Excellent. Thanks, Karl.
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People build wealth by using good judgement, hard work, common sense, discipline, educating themselves, reinforcing positive personal habits, and keeping their legs against one-another. Expy 401k confiscated, owner went Stack. Ls2go I sure wish principles would return...WeAreDoomed
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Glasshammer
Posts: 247
Incept: 2009-09-02
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KD or anyone
Not that long ago the President spoke before Congress and promised a Regulatory overhaul. Now I haven't seen anything in the news about this in some time. I am worried because its being drafted by those who head large hedge funds and should only be observing this process.
Can anyone find an update on the status of this?
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