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User Info The Mechanistic Reality On Masks in forum [MaskHoles]
Tickerguy
Posts: 167307
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Folks we need to cut the crap when it comes to masks.

The data across Europe and the US says they do not cut transmission. At all. In some cases they appear to increase transmission materially, including here in Sevier County.

That sounds preposterous but it's not, if you think about it for a minute. Let's review.

First, a "mask" is just a filter. A very imperfect filter with a terrible seal, but a filter nonetheless. (In contrast a "respirator", such as a P100 or N95, is a pretty good filter with a decent to excellent seal.)

All filters concentrate what they filter; that's how they work. That which does not go through them is retained, and thus concentrated. You can see this clearly by looking at the filter in your home's A/C unit. Most modern cars have one as well; go take a look (you should replace both every few months, by the way, and when you look at it you'll immediately understand why.)

Masks are very imperfect filters because they do not have a seal around the edges and anything that restricts airflow and is not sealed will form airflow jets where the unsealed edges are present. The higher the airflow restriction the greater the percentage of the total that will bypass. It takes very little airflow restriction to get extremely high (e.g. 90% or even 99%) bypass percentages provided surface area of the open areas where bypass can take place compared with the velocity of airflow is large enough. This is in addition to that which goes right through it, and for a cloth mask that's in the low to mid 90% range of everything that is directed through it. Obviously that which is not filtered either has no impact at all or, in some cases, a negative impact on what you're trying to do in that the jet of air formed (e.g. from the side of a paper mask) may be directed at another person where that coming out of your nose naturally is directed at the ground.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that 50% of the airflow in and out of your mouth and nose goes through your paper or cloth mask. You take about 20 breaths a minute at rest, and more while exerting yourself. I happen to be in pretty good shape for a 56 year old man (VO2Max of 47-48); my sleeping respiration rate (as recorded by my Garmin watch) tends to be around 10 breaths/minute, and my ordinary daily average is around 14 or so. If I am out for a run that number typically rises into the 40-50 range.

So if I wear a mask for an hour then I've taken whatever is in the air and impinges on that mask and collected it. Much of this will be harmless dust, but some of it will be pathogenic. Some of it goes through the mask and I inhale it. The larger particles tend to get caught in the mucosa of my nose and throat, but the smallest ones, which the EPA calls PM2.5 (2.5um and smaller) go right into the lungs. The bad news is that viruses are much smaller than this and thus go right through anything less than an N95, but some percentage of virus-laden particles (typically around 2% for a cloth mask, and perhaps 10% for a paper one) will indeed get caught on the cloth or paper, where they remain.

Since I generally, if working "lightly" (e.g. walking, as opposed to sitting quietly) will breathe about 20 times a minute, in one hour I have taken up to 1,200 TIMES the amount of material that is in one breath and passed it through the mask. In other words up to 1,200x as much material as was present in one breath has now been placed on that filter. The better the filter is, the closer to 1,200x that figure is.

Even if the filter is only 10% efficient (The other 90% either bypasses it or goes right through it) I still concentrated 120x as much material on the filter. That is, even if I wear a very poor mask that does statistically nothing to protect myself or others I have now created a monstrous biological hazard where one did not previously exist because I have taken very small amounts of contamination and concentrated it by a HUGE amount.

Much worse is that I performed this collection everywhere I was during that hour; if I walked from the parking lot of a business to the door I have now collected both nuisance and biological material from that entire path and brought it inside.

Now so long as the mask remains on my face and I don't touch it then whatever it collects probably, in the 90th percentile anyway, remains on the mask. That would be very good if the only place I transport that contamination to is a trashcan where it harms nobody.

The problem is that this is incompatible with what the general public does, and thus a very large amount of that contamination will be able to infect the wearer -- or worse, other people.

Specifically, a large part of the hospitality and tourism-related businesses, indeed nearly all of them, involve consuming food, beverages or both while on-site. To consume either I must remove the mask. The act of removing the mask contaminates my hands, and leads to a further problem -- what do I do with it once I take it off? Any place I put it is now contaminated with whatever it collected and in one hour of breathing through it I have put up to 1,200 TIMES as much contamination on it as would be there from one breath and collected that contamination from the everywhere I was in the previous hour! Anyone who contacts that surface is now contaminated.

If I cannot immediately wash my hands after removing the mask I will now, with a very high degree of certainty, infect myself with whatever may be on it when I proceed to consume the food or beverage. If I am required to wear it until I sit down to consume said food or beverage that contamination is certain since I cannot wash my hands after sitting down and removing the mask. If the food I consume is "finger food" (e.g. a sandwich, wings, a piece of bread in a fine dining establishment, etc.) then it is virtually certain I will introduce whatever contamination was on the mask directly into my mouth.

Perhaps worse is that when I go to put the mask back on if I transfer contamination from the outside surface to the INSIDE I have immediately infected myself!

Clearly, none of this will work -- and the data says it doesn't work at best, and increases infection rates at worst.

That's what the data tells us really happens and it's exactly what you'd expect to happen if you think about what these mandates are and the behavior they force to occur. They are the rough equivalent of forcing people to take their used toilet paper from the restroom and deposit it on the table where they're eating -- and then wondering why disease rates go up.

Is there a protocol that might work to have some sort of possible positive effect? Yes. Here's what you could do.

1. Exempt any business that has, as part of its core, the service of food or beverages, as the net impact will be negative.

2. Require all businesses that admit members of the public to an inside location and which do not serve food or beverages for on-site consumption to provide the customer with a mask from a sterile container and require they use that, and only that while inside. Said customer MAY NOT remove the mask while inside the business.

3. AT THE EXIT(s) said masks MUST BE REMOVED AND DISCARDED, and at the exit there must ALSO be a handwashing station with soap and water to be used immediately after removing and discarding the mask.

NOW you are not (1) bringing outside contamination in, (2) you are now ONLY filtering contamination generated while inside the store by customers or employees and (3) you are preventing that contamination collected while in your store from being transported to OTHER PLACES AND STORES where it can infect other people.

This, in short, is putting into the general public the procedure used in every medical center where masks are in use. Those medical centers have that procedure in place because they know damn well that any benefit that a mask may provide will be neutralized and potentially turned into a negative effect if those protocols are not followed. It might help; mechanistically, it would be expected to help, but the AMOUNT of decrease in transmission would likely be small to zero, simply because we know that's the record in random controlled trials for masks and viruses. But mechanistically such a protocol is sound where what is being ordered today IS, ON THE FACTS AND A MECHANISTIC ANALYSIS, GROSSLY UNSOUND.

The problem is that it's neither practical or affordable. The number of masks required would be astronomical and there is no supply in that volume available, as would be the cost. If 1,000 people passed through the door of your store in a given day then you would need to fund the 1,000 masks -- each and every day. You'd also have to pay for the disposal of them, all of which are biologically hazardous. This may require segregated waste stream handling, which makes it even more expensive.

The only other alternative is to ask those who believe they may be ill to wear a mask. In other words, to placard themselves as potentially biologically dangerous. That in turn makes a person with a mask on someone who you intentionally avoid getting close to.

That's what is common in Asian nations -- not "universal" mask-wearing, but the wearing of a mask if, when you think you might be ill, you are forced to go out because you need groceries or to go to the doctor's office. That's both polite and reasonable.

Blanket orders are neither, and in addition, on the data, they do not work.

They're nothing more, in point of fact, than a religious symbol and those who are pushing them are doing nothing more than trying to claim they can "pray away the gay" with serious detrimental effect on society as a whole and the people wearing them individually.

Those are the facts.

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If you will not force justice to be done by any means necessary when over 100,000 are murdered by political hacks from both parties do not complain or expect my help when you or someone you love dies at their hand. -- Me

Asimov
Posts: 118891
Incept: 2007-08-26

East Tennessee
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It's spreading. It's getting worse.

From promed today, referring to atlanta gov telling cities/counties they couldn't require masks.

Quote:
For people living outside of the USA, it's important to get a glimpse
of some stupidities ongoing. The value of face masks in reducing
transmission of the SARS-CoV-2 is not controversial in scientific
circles. Unfortunately, science hasn't found a cure for stupidity. -
Mod.MPP



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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Asimov
Posts: 118891
Incept: 2007-08-26

East Tennessee
Online
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Wow. Something changed with promed. There are mod comments after EVERYTHING on this morning's email.


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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Tickerguy
Posts: 167307
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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They're losing and know it.

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If you will not force justice to be done by any means necessary when over 100,000 are murdered by political hacks from both parties do not complain or expect my help when you or someone you love dies at their hand. -- Me
Asimov
Posts: 118891
Incept: 2007-08-26

East Tennessee
Online
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They never pushed on the mask thing at all. It's like they were taken over.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
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